Author Topic: Does PBW work ok with a cold water rinse vs the hot rinthe instructions specify?  (Read 208 times)

Offline Lazy Ant Brewing

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 471
Just bought 4 used kegs that probably haven't been used or cleaned in a year or more.  I've them outside, rinsed with cold water, now  disassembled and soaking with a hot solution of PBW, but I'm pondering the question would it be better to let them soak longer and rinse with cold water or soak for a lesser time and rinse with the hotter water?

Darkness is on the way and I need to drain the hoses supplying the cold water because we will have a hard freeze tonight.

Thanks in advance for your advice>
It's easier to read brewing books and get information from the forum than to sacrifice virgins to appease the brewing gods when bad beer happens!

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3926
It probably works a little better with a hot rinse.  But it really ought to be followed with an acid rinse to really get things squeaky clean, then the temperature of the rinse doesn't matter so much.  You could use any acid cleaner or sanitizer or just a white vinegar solution.   Cycle is hot PBW --> water rinse --> acid rinse --> water rinse.  Should be no residue of anything left after that.  I use this sequence every time I mean anything.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline Lazy Ant Brewing

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 471
Thanks,

I'm planning on the water rinse, than star san, than water again.  They are quite dirty.
It's easier to read brewing books and get information from the forum than to sacrifice virgins to appease the brewing gods when bad beer happens!

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3926


It probably works a little better with a hot rinse.  But it really ought to be followed with an acid rinse to really get things squeaky clean, then the temperature of the rinse doesn't matter so much.  You could use any acid cleaner or sanitizer or just a white vinegar solution.   Cycle is hot PBW --> water rinse --> acid rinse --> water rinse.  Should be no residue of anything left after that.  I use this sequence every time I clean anything.

(Edited typo)

Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 20977
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Thanks,

I'm planning on the water rinse, than star san, than water again.  They are quite dirty.

The temp of the rinse likely makes no difference to the length of soak IME.  And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3926


And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?

If it's the acid product that's on hand, it's good as an acid rinse.  I personally use dairy milkstone remover as the acid cleaner and rinse in my brewery, because it's dirt cheap compared to phosphoric acid + surfactant products of identical composition marketed as brewing supplies, but Star San also contains phosphoric acid and surfactants.  Iodophor is my sanitizer, but it needs to be preceded by an acid rinse after alkaline cleaners anyway, as any alkaline residue will affect its effectiveness.  Again, white vinegar will work as a rinse too, but lacking a surfactant, it may be less effective, requiring a full soak.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 20977
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew


And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?

If it's the acid product that's on hand, it's good as an acid rinse.  I personally use dairy milkstone remover as the acid cleaner and rinse in my brewery, because it's dirt cheap compared to phosphoric acid + surfactant products of identical composition marketed as brewing supplies, but Star San also contains phosphoric acid and surfactants.  Iodophor is my sanitizer, but it needs to be preceded by an acid rinse after alkaline cleaners anyway, as any alkaline residue will affect its effectiveness.  Again, white vinegar will work as a rinse too, but lacking a surfactant, it may be less effective, requiring a full soak.

In my opinion and experience, that's unnecessary overkill.  Simplify...get rid of stuff that doesn't really matter.  Reality often astonishes theory.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3926


And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?

If it's the acid product that's on hand, it's good as an acid rinse.  I personally use dairy milkstone remover as the acid cleaner and rinse in my brewery, because it's dirt cheap compared to phosphoric acid + surfactant products of identical composition marketed as brewing supplies, but Star San also contains phosphoric acid and surfactants.  Iodophor is my sanitizer, but it needs to be preceded by an acid rinse after alkaline cleaners anyway, as any alkaline residue will affect its effectiveness.  Again, white vinegar will work as a rinse too, but lacking a surfactant, it may be less effective, requiring a full soak.

In my opinion and experience, that's unnecessary overkill.  Simplify...get rid of stuff that doesn't really matter.  Reality often astonishes theory.
My routine is based on experience.  Others may find things work differently, probably a lot depends on your water.  And when your guy from the manufacturer of BTF iodophor joined us a while back, he mentioned the part about alkaline cleaner residue and iodophor, so I believed him.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 20977
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew


And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?

If it's the acid product that's on hand, it's good as an acid rinse.  I personally use dairy milkstone remover as the acid cleaner and rinse in my brewery, because it's dirt cheap compared to phosphoric acid + surfactant products of identical composition marketed as brewing supplies, but Star San also contains phosphoric acid and surfactants.  Iodophor is my sanitizer, but it needs to be preceded by an acid rinse after alkaline cleaners anyway, as any alkaline residue will affect its effectiveness.  Again, white vinegar will work as a rinse too, but lacking a surfactant, it may be less effective, requiring a full soak.

In my opinion and experience, that's unnecessary overkill.  Simplify...get rid of stuff that doesn't really matter.  Reality often astonishes theory.
My routine is based on experience.  Others may find things work differently, probably a lot depends on your water.  And when your guy from the manufacturer of BTF iodophor joined us a while back, he mentioned the part about alkaline cleaner residue and iodophor, so I believed him.

As I said, there's theory and then there's real life.  We're hobbyists, so do what you like!  I haven't found it necessry so I won't bother.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3250


And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?

If it's the acid product that's on hand, it's good as an acid rinse.  I personally use dairy milkstone remover as the acid cleaner and rinse in my brewery, because it's dirt cheap compared to phosphoric acid + surfactant products of identical composition marketed as brewing supplies, but Star San also contains phosphoric acid and surfactants.  Iodophor is my sanitizer, but it needs to be preceded by an acid rinse after alkaline cleaners anyway, as any alkaline residue will affect its effectiveness.  Again, white vinegar will work as a rinse too, but lacking a surfactant, it may be less effective, requiring a full soak.

In my opinion and experience, that's unnecessary overkill.  Simplify...get rid of stuff that doesn't really matter.  Reality often astonishes theory.
My routine is based on experience.  Others may find things work differently, probably a lot depends on your water.  And when your guy from the manufacturer of BTF iodophor joined us a while back, he mentioned the part about alkaline cleaner residue and iodophor, so I believed him.

I encountered beer stone in my kegs after a decade plus of use - I soaked the kegs in milkstone remover for a few days and the beer stone was gone.  I would not have noticed the beer stone, had I not had an infected batch that caused me to inspect fermenter (a stainless kegmenter) and dispensing kegs with a bright light and feeling the slight roughness on the inside of the vessels.  Scrubbing did not work entirely, so the acid soak was done and it worked perfectly. 

I think the level of beerstone might be based on the water composition, time in the dispensing keg, or the typical beer style - but that is just a WAG.  It is possible that the kegs came to me with some of the stone in place, but I have no way of knowing, as I did not inspect them that closely when I got them - I cleaned them thoroughly and used to break them down totally each time, but I did not notice any stone until this past year.  Now they are clean as a whistle.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"