[Robert]

yeah but in order to see what works for you one should have a firm grasp on fundamentals

No, all you need is to pitch a batch warmer and let it cool down,  and pitch another cooler and let it warm up.  Then see how each fermentation proceeds and how each beer turns out, and decide whether anything about either method makes it more appealing to you, either for what it does to the beer or for its convenience.  You'll identify your own fundamentals.

[BrewBama]

I just pitch within a degree or three north or south of the temp that I plan to ferment the wort.  ...and I wholehearted agree with this:

In my experience, Diacetyl rests are relatively unnecessary when you pitch an adequate amount of healthy, active yeast.

Cheers!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jtoots]

i recently learned that pitching warmer, even for lagers, is healthier so i'm curious what's driving you to pitch that cold?

from all the research i have read pitching cold reduces diacetyl, i was always told to pitch cold and let the temp warm up to fermentation temps 50-52F, pitching warm gets the fermentation going faster but increases diacetyl. IDK maybe a more experienced lager brewer can chime in and clarify

I'd like to get the reasoning behind both of these theories

Hi Denny,
I'm struggling to find the original source I stumbled upon but here's one tidbit straight from the mfr: https://www.whitelabs.com/faq/brewing/what-temperature-should-i-pitch-lager-yeast
I personally have found that my yeast used to take a good couple days to hit a high level of activity/krausen and now I'm rocking and rolling 12 hours later or less.
I'm no chemist/yeast guru so I'll be over my head if the conversation goes town a technical rabbit hole, sorry...

But does 12 hours vs. 2 days make a difference to the beer quality?  Not in my experience.

Yup, in my experience it has been an improvement. Not trying to shove my workflow down anyone's throats here, simply sharing my experiences and asking questions.

[denny]

i recently learned that pitching warmer, even for lagers, is healthier so i'm curious what's driving you to pitch that cold?

from all the research i have read pitching cold reduces diacetyl, i was always told to pitch cold and let the temp warm up to fermentation temps 50-52F, pitching warm gets the fermentation going faster but increases diacetyl. IDK maybe a more experienced lager brewer can chime in and clarify

I'd like to get the reasoning behind both of these theories

Hi Denny,
I'm struggling to find the original source I stumbled upon but here's one tidbit straight from the mfr: https://www.whitelabs.com/faq/brewing/what-temperature-should-i-pitch-lager-yeast
I personally have found that my yeast used to take a good couple days to hit a high level of activity/krausen and now I'm rocking and rolling 12 hours later or less.
I'm no chemist/yeast guru so I'll be over my head if the conversation goes town a technical rabbit hole, sorry...

But does 12 hours vs. 2 days make a difference to the beer quality?  Not in my experience.

Yup, in my experience it has been an improvement. Not trying to shove my workflow down anyone's throats here, simply sharing my experiences and asking questions.

Interesting.  What difference did it make for you? I've never found any difference at all, so I'm curious.

[jtoots]

i recently learned that pitching warmer, even for lagers, is healthier so i'm curious what's driving you to pitch that cold?

from all the research i have read pitching cold reduces diacetyl, i was always told to pitch cold and let the temp warm up to fermentation temps 50-52F, pitching warm gets the fermentation going faster but increases diacetyl. IDK maybe a more experienced lager brewer can chime in and clarify

I'd like to get the reasoning behind both of these theories

Hi Denny,
I'm struggling to find the original source I stumbled upon but here's one tidbit straight from the mfr: https://www.whitelabs.com/faq/brewing/what-temperature-should-i-pitch-lager-yeast
I personally have found that my yeast used to take a good couple days to hit a high level of activity/krausen and now I'm rocking and rolling 12 hours later or less.
I'm no chemist/yeast guru so I'll be over my head if the conversation goes town a technical rabbit hole, sorry...

But does 12 hours vs. 2 days make a difference to the beer quality?  Not in my experience.

Yup, in my experience it has been an improvement. Not trying to shove my workflow down anyone's throats here, simply sharing my experiences and asking questions.

Interesting.  What difference did it make for you? I've never found any difference at all, so I'm curious.

Feeling bad that I kinda hijacked this thread but here we go:
-Beer is ready faster = win!
-intuitively feels right having yeast jump off faster = healthier? maybe. less risk of contamination? probably?
-i *think* I'm getting lower FGs but I'm no brulosopher so a bit of non-scientific observation there
-cleaner/less esthery finished product, especially on non-hop forward styles like dubbels, kolschs, marzens... but again, i'm no brulosopher so these observations could very well be biased.

[denny]

1.  I'm not in so much of a hurry that 24 hours matters to me

2. Feelings are not facts

3.  I've never seen that difference

4. Again, I've never seen that

I think you've been brainwashed!   

[jtoots]

1.  I'm not in so much of a hurry that 24 hours matters to me

2. Feelings are not facts

3.  I've never seen that difference

4. Again, I've never seen that

I think you've been brainwashed!   

Denny, all due respect, your responses seem to be of the opinion that I'm trying to talk you into my observations/workflow. Not the case, I'm trying to share my experiences and answer your questions. Your experiences over the years may very well have been different than mine. I'm all good with that. You flip flop from "feelings are not facts" to "I've never seen that"... when was the last time you saw something you hadn't seen before or learned a fact you hadn't previously known? Hopefully recently, if not I personally would be pretty bored!

As I showed you, pitching warm is not something I made up... it's out there, including on manufacturer resources. If you want to stick with your way of doing things I'd never dream of offending you for doing so.

I'm about done with this one, apologies to the OP for this derailment.

[denny]

No, not at all, nor am I trying to talk you into my point of view.  Like you, I'm just stating the experiences I've had.

[MattyAHA]

1.  I'm not in so much of a hurry that 24 hours matters to me

2. Feelings are not facts

3.  I've never seen that difference

4. Again, I've never seen that

I think you've been brainwashed!   

Denny, all due respect, your responses seem to be of the opinion that I'm trying to talk you into my observations/workflow. Not the case, I'm trying to share my experiences and answer your questions. Your experiences over the years may very well have been different than mine. I'm all good with that. You flip flop from "feelings are not facts" to "I've never seen that"... when was the last time you saw something you hadn't seen before or learned a fact you hadn't previously known? Hopefully recently, if not I personally would be pretty bored!

As I showed you, pitching warm is not something I made up... it's out there, including on manufacturer resources. If you want to stick with your way of doing things I'd never dream of offending you for doing so.

I'm about done with this one, apologies to the OP for this derailment.

no worries about it, my beer is  gonna have off flavors regardless  pitching hot,cold,warm,cool im getting off flavors, the day i get a clean lager is the day emilia clarke knocks on my door expressing her undying love for me , so no worries about "hijacking" this thread its not a problem at all