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Author Topic: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?  (Read 8196 times)

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2020, 11:37:27 am »
I have no problem using any vessel to complete the cooling overnight before pitching yeast. Evidently, overnight doesn’t give the bacteria enough time to ruin a batch. Been there done that many times.

I have no problem using a canning jar to allow liquid to cool on a countertop creating a vacuum seal. They were designed for that. Again, I’ve done it many times.

I do have a problem using a keg to place hot boiling wort in, allow it to cool by any means, and remain in that keg for a week or more, and then pitching yeast. I just don’t think it’s a safe practice and I’m frankly shocked to hear such an esteemed home brewer as Denny saying this.

To each his own. I wish anyone who does it nothing but continued good luck in this practice. However, I do not recommend it.


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Offline Robert

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2020, 11:54:54 am »
Absence of a negative result does not equate to absence of risk. Not meaning any disrespect to your experience Denny, but you may have just been lucky.

The other possibility is that the people who have had problems were just unlucky, right?
No.  The fact is this carries a high risk of infection, because a corny keg won't seal to keep bugs out.  The lucky ones are those who don't have a problem.   Those who experience the predictable, in fact probable, result aren't unlucky at all.  Sauntering across a six lane highway and not getting hit is indeed lucky.  Doing the same and getting hit isn't unlucky, it's getting exactly what you bargained for.  Luck won't hold out forever.
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Offline denny

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2020, 12:21:33 pm »
As I keep saying over and over, it isn't just me.  Instead of repeatedly telling me it doesnt work, why don't you doubters give it a try and post your results?  That's what I did.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2020, 12:31:22 pm »
I appreciate both points of view, for certain, and understand that equipment that is used here must be chosen with care and with an eye toward safety.  Reasonable minds can differ and can raise doubts in good faith.  Are there USDA standards (or similar) that might elucidate this issue?
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narvin

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2020, 12:38:29 pm »

I have no problem using a canning jar to allow liquid to cool on a countertop creating a vacuum seal. They were designed for that. Again, I’ve done it many times.


This is also only sterile if you've canned it at 15 psi/250F for 15 minutes.  It can be sanitary for acidic stuff IF you use the boiling water method after filling the jar.  Filling the jar with pre-heated food or liquid is NOT considered safe.  The issue here is botulism, not something that makes your beer taste bad.

What it comes down to is that we're dealing with "sanitary enough" in the case of beer.  I personally wouldn't fill a keg with hot wort and leave it for a week at room temperature, but if you're slowly chilling it down in a fermentation chamber (even from boiling), how can you say that wouldn't work without trying it?  Drawing a line in the sand over various definitions of "sanitary" seems silly to me.

https://www.pickyourown.org/cannersnotrecommended.htm


Disclaimer: I chill my wort.  Aside from the theoretical benefits making me feel good, I just don't enjoy waiting.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 12:55:51 pm by narvin »

narvin

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2020, 12:48:22 pm »
I appreciate both points of view, for certain, and understand that equipment that is used here must be chosen with care and with an eye toward safety.  Reasonable minds can differ and can raise doubts in good faith.  Are there USDA standards (or similar) that might elucidate this issue?

Fermentation is generally recognized as safe; otherwise you wouldn't be able to make a berliner weiss with a sour mash.  Botullsm will only thrive in an anaerobic environment which is why improperly canned foods are the danger. A little air is unlikely to spoil your wort quickly; otherwise, we wouldn't be aerating with an aquarium pump.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2020, 01:51:48 pm »
As I keep saying over and over, it isn't just me.  Instead of repeatedly telling me it doesnt work, why don't you doubters give it a try and post your results?  That's what I did.

That’s a great point. I admittedly have not done it myself and I do not have first hand knowledge.  I have a hydra that works fantastic so I have no need or interest in trying it.  I’m too impatient I guess. I like to get on with fermentation rather than let the wort sit in a keg for a week.

That and I don’t care for lambics.


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Offline denny

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2020, 01:57:45 pm »
As I keep saying over and over, it isn't just me.  Instead of repeatedly telling me it doesnt work, why don't you doubters give it a try and post your results?  That's what I did.

That’s a great point. I admittedly have not done it myself and I do not have first hand knowledge.  I have a hydra that works fantastic so I have no need or interest in trying it.  I’m too impatient I guess. I like to get on with fermentation rather than let the wort sit in a keg for a week.

That and I don’t care for lambics.


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 ;D

Like I said somewhere along the line, I don' do it al the time...only when circumstances warrant.  But I initially tried it out of curiosity because like you and Rob I didn't think it would work.  I proved myself wrong.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #83 on: January 09, 2020, 03:27:50 pm »
Well, like I said, I proved myself right.  Apparently we all have different goals, standards, and/or sensitivities.  Which isn't surprising.  And I'm waiting for that SS Hydra to come out so I can chill even faster!
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Online dbeechum

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2020, 03:29:50 pm »
Don't know why we're talking about leaving wort in a keg for a week.

When I do no-chill, I'm usually pitching 8ish hours laters. (I usually brew no-chill at night. Package around 10-11 and then pitch in the morning when I wake up.

And I thought stainless has a worse level of thermal conductivity making it slower than copper?
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Offline denny

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #85 on: January 09, 2020, 03:31:31 pm »
Don't know why we're talking about leaving wort in a keg for a week.

When I do no-chill, I'm usually pitching 8ish hours laters. (I usually brew no-chill at night. Package around 10-11 and then pitch in the morning when I wake up.

And I thought stainless has a worse level of thermal conductivity making it slower than copper?

For me, it's almost never more than 12 hours.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2020, 03:36:27 pm »
Don't know why we're talking about leaving wort in a keg for a week.

When I do no-chill, I'm usually pitching 8ish hours laters. (I usually brew no-chill at night. Package around 10-11 and then pitch in the morning when I wake up.

And I thought stainless has a worse level of thermal conductivity making it slower than copper?

This is why (below). If we’re talking 8-12 hours that’s quite a different animal.

So... you occasionally pour boiling hot wort into a keg, allow this wort to cool at ambient temp, hold it at room temp without any pressure on the keg to seal the lid for days and weeks at a time without any detriment (such as infection). You do this only occasionally because you don’t have enough appropriate containers (such as kegs and Jerry cans I suppose).


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Sounds right, although I do control fermentation temp or sometimes put the sealed keg in the fermentation chamber to cool.

...



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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #87 on: January 09, 2020, 03:37:37 pm »


For me, it's almost never more than 12 hours.

You’re contradicting yourself (above).



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Offline denny

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #88 on: January 09, 2020, 03:48:19 pm »


For me, it's almost never more than 12 hours.

You’re contradicting yourself (above).



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Yes, I am, because I didn't read your post closely enough the first time. I apologize for the misunderstanding.  The second response is correct.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Brewing outdoor in cold weather?
« Reply #89 on: January 09, 2020, 04:04:10 pm »


For me, it's almost never more than 12 hours.

You’re contradicting yourself (above).



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Yes, I am, because I didn't read your post closely enough the first time. I apologize for the misunderstanding.  The second response is correct.

Whew. I am so pleased you do not advocate what I thought you were saying. My esteem is restored.


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