[Fire Rooster]

Never brewed an all grain stout/porter.
Any recipe suggestions for my first attempt ?

As you have found, it's complicated, you first have to define what a stout or porter is. Yes, originally stout porter and porter were just different strength partigyles from the same mashes, so used identical grists, but they have evolved since then. Just within the British Isles, Dublin stouts are very different to London stouts (which are sweeter and don't use roast barley as a rule), and other Irish stouts are somewhere in between. And the pervasive influence of 4.2% Guinness means that British commercial stouts on average are now weaker than porters, which makes no sense historically.

And then you have all the variations that have happened outside the British Isles.

But here at least, the benchmarks are Guinness and Fuller's London Porter. Although everyone thinks of roast barley as the defining ingredient of Irish stouts, Guinness didn't start using it until the 1930s, although others had started using it before WWI. Typical Guinness clone recipes are 70% pale, 20% flaked barley and 10% roast barley, but you can play around with other unmalted and roast ingredients, US recipes tend to use a bit less flaked.

We have a pretty good recipe for Fuller's Porter (and the new imperial version with glucose + treacle) - 75% pale malt, 14% UK crystal 60L, 10% brown malt, 1.5% UK chocolate to 1.056, with 37 IBU from Fuggles or similar. Use a characterful yeast that doesn't attenuate too much - Imperial Pub is ideal, or something like WLP041.

Brown malt is the defining ingredient of London porters but some people appear to not get on with it - I'm not sure if that's personal taste or reflecting differences between maltsters. Personally the Fuller's porter is one of my absolute favourite beers, it's one I will go out of my way for if it's on cask.

Historically the fancy ingredients like Otter and EKG would be saved for the premium pale beers so dark beers (in the UK at least) would be made with second-line ingredients - ordinary pale malt or worse, lesser hops like Colgate and Grape etc. So don't sweat the ingredients too much - Nugget will be fine for bittering.

What PH range am I seeking ?

You end up in the "normal" range for mashing, the point is that dark malts are more acidic than pale malts so if you have soft or RO water then you can end up with a mash pH below the optimum for mash enzymes.

Used your guidance for guinness clone, came out good, tastes like a guinness to me.
Actual brew-
67% Crisp Floor Malted Maris Otter
22% Flaked Barley
11% Briess Roasted Barley

Nugget-Pellet (15.3%)

Thanks

[Megary]

Never brewed an all grain stout/porter.
Any recipe suggestions for my first attempt ?

As you have found, it's complicated, you first have to define what a stout or porter is. Yes, originally stout porter and porter were just different strength partigyles from the same mashes, so used identical grists, but they have evolved since then. Just within the British Isles, Dublin stouts are very different to London stouts (which are sweeter and don't use roast barley as a rule), and other Irish stouts are somewhere in between. And the pervasive influence of 4.2% Guinness means that British commercial stouts on average are now weaker than porters, which makes no sense historically.

And then you have all the variations that have happened outside the British Isles.

But here at least, the benchmarks are Guinness and Fuller's London Porter. Although everyone thinks of roast barley as the defining ingredient of Irish stouts, Guinness didn't start using it until the 1930s, although others had started using it before WWI. Typical Guinness clone recipes are 70% pale, 20% flaked barley and 10% roast barley, but you can play around with other unmalted and roast ingredients, US recipes tend to use a bit less flaked.

We have a pretty good recipe for Fuller's Porter (and the new imperial version with glucose + treacle) - 75% pale malt, 14% UK crystal 60L, 10% brown malt, 1.5% UK chocolate to 1.056, with 37 IBU from Fuggles or similar. Use a characterful yeast that doesn't attenuate too much - Imperial Pub is ideal, or something like WLP041.

Brown malt is the defining ingredient of London porters but some people appear to not get on with it - I'm not sure if that's personal taste or reflecting differences between maltsters. Personally the Fuller's porter is one of my absolute favourite beers, it's one I will go out of my way for if it's on cask.

Historically the fancy ingredients like Otter and EKG would be saved for the premium pale beers so dark beers (in the UK at least) would be made with second-line ingredients - ordinary pale malt or worse, lesser hops like Colgate and Grape etc. So don't sweat the ingredients too much - Nugget will be fine for bittering.

What PH range am I seeking ?

You end up in the "normal" range for mashing, the point is that dark malts are more acidic than pale malts so if you have soft or RO water then you can end up with a mash pH below the optimum for mash enzymes.

Used your guidance for guinness clone, came out good, tastes like a guinness to me.
Actual brew-
67% Crisp Floor Malted Maris Otter
22% Flaked Barley
11% Briess Roasted Barley

Nugget-Pellet (15.3%)

Thanks

The Irish Stout that I'm enjoying out of my Keg right now is:
64% 2 row
21% Flaked Barley
11% Roast Barley
4% Chocolate Wheat

It is very tasty but I think I bumped the Roast/Chocolate right up next to my own personal "ash tray" limit.  I'll likely dial that 15% back slightly, like cracking a safe, and I think I'll be right where I want to be grain-wise.

Stouts and Porters are by far my favorite beers and the way I have defined them for myself is Stout=Roast Barley and Porter=Brown.  The rest of the recipe is open for interpretation.   

[Fire Rooster]

Funny, never looked at it that way, but can relate to the "ash tray".
I'm not certain what my preferred stye is anymore since brewing.

[Northern_Brewer]

Used your guidance for guinness clone, came out good, tastes like a guinness to me.
Actual brew-
67% Crisp Floor Malted Maris Otter
22% Flaked Barley
11% Briess Roasted Barley

Nugget-Pellet (15.3%)

Thanks

Always good when a plan comes together! Do give the London Porter a go, to my mind it's a far superior beer to Guinness (particularly, but not just, when on cask).

[Fire Rooster]

Used your guidance for guinness clone, came out good, tastes like a guinness to me.
Actual brew-
67% Crisp Floor Malted Maris Otter
22% Flaked Barley
11% Briess Roasted Barley

Nugget-Pellet (15.3%)

Thanks

Always good when a plan comes together! Do give the London Porter a go, to my mind it's a far superior beer to Guinness (particularly, but not just, when on cask).

Brewed a London Porter right behind Guinness clone,
should be ready in a week or so.
 
82% Crisp Floor Malted Maris Otter
9% Brown Malt
6% White Wheat
3% Chocolate Malt

Mosaic-Whole (12.9%)

[goose]

There is Roasted Barley, and Black Roasted Barley.
Which one for a Stout ?


Thanks

I would use roasted barley for a stout but not in a porter.  For my Russian Imperial Stout I also add Black Patent and/or Black Barley.

Black Patent also works in a porter to add a coffee flavor and 60 L crystal will add a bit of a raisin note.  I may be the odd man out here but I do not like the flavor of brown malt in a porter.  To my palate it tends to give a slightly sour flavor to the beer that I can pick out right away, so I stay away from it.

[Fire Rooster]

There is Roasted Barley, and Black Roasted Barley.
Which one for a Stout ?


Thanks

I would use roasted barley for a stout but not in a porter.  For my Russian Imperial Stout I also add Black Patent and/or Black Barley.

Black Patent also works in a porter to add a coffee flavor and 60 L crystal will add a bit of a raisin note.  I may be the odd man out here but I do not like the flavor of brown malt in a porter.  To my palate it tends to give a slightly sour flavor to the beer that I can pick out right away, so I stay away from it.

I'm a virgin to many home brew styles, porter being one of them.
Don't know if I'll like brown malt or not, time will tell.
Nut brown ale is in my brewing que, I think after two more batches.

ps: 78-81 I lived in Hawaii, my old lost forgotten service/surfing buddy was from Mansfield OH.

[goose]

ps: 78-81 I lived in Hawaii, my old lost forgotten service/surfing buddy was from Mansfield OH.

Cool.  Mansfield only 30 miles away.  Know a lot of people who were from there.  One of them owns the Choice City Deli in Fort Collins, CO.