Author Topic: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs  (Read 1239 times)

Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2017, 07:28:21 PM »
If you use Brett or Saison yeasts, it would be prudent to give a sanitizing cycle with something besides Star San.

IME, a solely acid-based sanitizer can't be relied on to give brewery-level sanitation (let's say 4σ) even for Saccharomyces spp.
+1
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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2017, 06:42:09 AM »
Unfortunately it has happened with Wyeast too. Tom Schmidlin and I had the exact same problem with the exact same strain and the nexact same time that we corroborated about at the CBC this year. That problem cost the company over $50K (easily) in dumped product and an untold amount in falling sales from that particular beer. Another time I had an overnight pitch from Wyeast show up DOA and they refused to replace or refund it. Surprised Left Hand doesn't have a sophisticated enough yeast lab to plate/slant and grow up their own strains.

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2017, 06:56:30 AM »
I guess this all negates their term “Pure Pitch”.


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Offline alestateyall

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2017, 10:24:27 AM »
I still use White Labs and Wyeast without fear.

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2017, 07:43:34 AM »
We just started testing for diastaticus... it is nasty stuff... but it's also considered a "saccharomyces wild yeast".  It comes from the air and the environment, I don't think anyone cultures it (to my knowledge, I'm sure I'm wrong). 

I wouldn't doubt that it may have come from White Labs, but I think they are going to have a really, really hard time proving it...

From what I've read elsewhere they identified the unwelcomed guest in unused pitches from white labs that matched what was found in beers after the fact.

Wow... that makes it a little more cut and dry... yikes.
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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2017, 06:48:19 PM »
I still use White Labs and Wyeast without fear.

Yeah me too I just don't spend $500+ dollars for a 20 bbl pitch anymore, I grow yeast up from packs.

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2017, 08:08:30 PM »
I still use White Labs and Wyeast without fear.

Yeah me too I just don't spend $500+ dollars for a 20 bbl pitch anymore, I grow yeast up from packs.
Do you make some QA checks as you grow up? Just asking as to why that is better for you.
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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2017, 04:36:18 AM »
I still use White Labs and Wyeast without fear.

Yeah me too I just don't spend $500+ dollars for a 20 bbl pitch anymore, I grow yeast up from packs.
Do you make some QA checks as you grow up? Just asking as to why that is better for you.

There are multiple reasons why it is better, I can get packs of yeast within a week WL and WY were taking sometimes 4-6 weeks or longer to get me a pitch and when one showed up DOA that was a real problem. As far as quality checks, everything acting "normal" is a pretty big deal, once I have the pitch grown up I will do a cell count/viability, check for misshapen cells and do a sensory evaluation. If everything checks out I will pitch either into a 15 or 20 bbl batch depending on what I am trying to do. Takes me a week to go from a single pack of yeast to a 20 bbl pitch so time saving is huge and I have started a regular rotation so as to keep better track of generations.

Having the problems with WY has forced me to start taking more control of my yeast in house so that is a good thing but still smarting from the issues I had from them last year.

I still primarily use WL and WY, but also use Yeast Bay and Imperial.  I definitely think that the explosion of craft beer has caused a strain on the yeast companies. I still trust all of their products but I do not think they are infallible.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 04:38:57 AM by majorvices »

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2017, 05:35:30 AM »
I still use White Labs and Wyeast without fear.

Yeah me too I just don't spend $500+ dollars for a 20 bbl pitch anymore, I grow yeast up from packs.
Do you make some QA checks as you grow up? Just asking as to why that is better for you.

There are multiple reasons why it is better, I can get packs of yeast within a week WL and WY were taking sometimes 4-6 weeks or longer to get me a pitch and when one showed up DOA that was a real problem. As far as quality checks, everything acting "normal" is a pretty big deal, once I have the pitch grown up I will do a cell count/viability, check for misshapen cells and do a sensory evaluation. If everything checks out I will pitch either into a 15 or 20 bbl batch depending on what I am trying to do. Takes me a week to go from a single pack of yeast to a 20 bbl pitch so time saving is huge and I have started a regular rotation so as to keep better track of generations.

Having the problems with WY has forced me to start taking more control of my yeast in house so that is a good thing but still smarting from the issues I had from them last year.

I still primarily use WL and WY, but also use Yeast Bay and Imperial.  I definitely think that the explosion of craft beer has caused a strain on the yeast companies. I still trust all of their products but I do not think they are infallible.

Thanks, kind of what I was thinking you did.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2017, 08:19:10 PM »
I still use White Labs and Wyeast without fear.

Yeah me too I just don't spend $500+ dollars for a 20 bbl pitch anymore, I grow yeast up from packs.
Do you make some QA checks as you grow up? Just asking as to why that is better for you.

There are multiple reasons why it is better, I can get packs of yeast within a week WL and WY were taking sometimes 4-6 weeks or longer to get me a pitch and when one showed up DOA that was a real problem. As far as quality checks, everything acting "normal" is a pretty big deal, once I have the pitch grown up I will do a cell count/viability, check for misshapen cells and do a sensory evaluation. If everything checks out I will pitch either into a 15 or 20 bbl batch depending on what I am trying to do. Takes me a week to go from a single pack of yeast to a 20 bbl pitch so time saving is huge and I have started a regular rotation so as to keep better track of generations.

Having the problems with WY has forced me to start taking more control of my yeast in house so that is a good thing but still smarting from the issues I had from them last year.

I still primarily use WL and WY, but also use Yeast Bay and Imperial.  I definitely think that the explosion of craft beer has caused a strain on the yeast companies. I still trust all of their products but I do not think they are infallible.
I bought yeast only 4 times in 7 years. As long as I get flavor profile what I want and get good performance, there is no need for new pitch. It takes up to 6 generations till yeast starts performing to its best.

I know of much smaller breweries then Left Hand that have yeast propagator. I am very surprise their lack of control
On the front end.


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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2017, 06:10:53 AM »
I still use White Labs and Wyeast without fear.

Yeah me too I just don't spend $500+ dollars for a 20 bbl pitch anymore, I grow yeast up from packs.
Do you make some QA checks as you grow up? Just asking as to why that is better for you.

There are multiple reasons why it is better, I can get packs of yeast within a week WL and WY were taking sometimes 4-6 weeks or longer to get me a pitch and when one showed up DOA that was a real problem. As far as quality checks, everything acting "normal" is a pretty big deal, once I have the pitch grown up I will do a cell count/viability, check for misshapen cells and do a sensory evaluation. If everything checks out I will pitch either into a 15 or 20 bbl batch depending on what I am trying to do. Takes me a week to go from a single pack of yeast to a 20 bbl pitch so time saving is huge and I have started a regular rotation so as to keep better track of generations.

Having the problems with WY has forced me to start taking more control of my yeast in house so that is a good thing but still smarting from the issues I had from them last year.

I still primarily use WL and WY, but also use Yeast Bay and Imperial.  I definitely think that the explosion of craft beer has caused a strain on the yeast companies. I still trust all of their products but I do not think they are infallible.
I bought yeast only 4 times in 7 years. As long as I get flavor profile what I want and get good performance, there is no need for new pitch. It takes up to 6 generations till yeast starts performing to its best.

I know of much smaller breweries then Left Hand that have yeast propagator. I am very surprise their lack of control
On the front end.


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Good to hear from you again.
Jeff Rankert
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AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2017, 07:43:11 PM »
I read forum as much as time permits. Thank you for stopping my and trying our beers.


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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2017, 04:10:56 AM »
I still use White Labs and Wyeast without fear.

Yeah me too I just don't spend $500+ dollars for a 20 bbl pitch anymore, I grow yeast up from packs.
Do you make some QA checks as you grow up? Just asking as to why that is better for you.

There are multiple reasons why it is better, I can get packs of yeast within a week WL and WY were taking sometimes 4-6 weeks or longer to get me a pitch and when one showed up DOA that was a real problem. As far as quality checks, everything acting "normal" is a pretty big deal, once I have the pitch grown up I will do a cell count/viability, check for misshapen cells and do a sensory evaluation. If everything checks out I will pitch either into a 15 or 20 bbl batch depending on what I am trying to do. Takes me a week to go from a single pack of yeast to a 20 bbl pitch so time saving is huge and I have started a regular rotation so as to keep better track of generations.

Having the problems with WY has forced me to start taking more control of my yeast in house so that is a good thing but still smarting from the issues I had from them last year.

I still primarily use WL and WY, but also use Yeast Bay and Imperial.  I definitely think that the explosion of craft beer has caused a strain on the yeast companies. I still trust all of their products but I do not think they are infallible.
I bought yeast only 4 times in 7 years. As long as I get flavor profile what I want and get good performance, there is no need for new pitch. It takes up to 6 generations till yeast starts performing to its best.

I know of much smaller breweries then Left Hand that have yeast propagator. I am very surprise their lack of control
On the front end.


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That's incredible Leos but that wouldn't work for my brewery. I can get a heck of a lot of gens from the lager strain but our Belgian strain starts to mutate after about 4-6 gens and we don't reuse yeast after a SG of 1.065 usually. We also do a lot of one off batches through out the year that use strains other than our 2 house strains. We will also hopefully be pushing 10,000 bbls next year so yeast management is going to become even more critical.