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Author Topic: First time brewer temperature concerns  (Read 1832 times)

Offline M_Snyder

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First time brewer temperature concerns
« on: January 01, 2020, 06:37:03 am »
Hi all! I just brewed my first batch four days ago, and I am anxious about my fermentation temperature. The first few days, i had the fermentor in a closet, but i was getting concerned that it was a little too warm (the thermomer on the side of my bucket was reading somwhere between 72F and 75F) so yesterday, I gently moved my fermentor to a colder room. Now, the thermometer reads somewhere between 64F and 68F. I know that yeast slows down when temperature drops and now my air lock is no longer bubbling., but my question is this: should i have just left the fermentor alone in the warmer room? Should I just leave it where it is?

Edit: i feel like i should mention that this batch is a milk stout, if that makes a significant difference.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 09:12:54 am by M_Snyder »

Offline BrewBama

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First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2020, 07:04:25 am »
Depending on what strain of yeast it may be complete.

Also, don’t trust the airlock. I have a Tilt hydrometer and can see the effects of fermentation yet get little airlock activity in the beginning and end of fermentation. Trust a hydrometer.

Also, be aware that when you cool a warm liquid it condenses. This can cause what is lovingly termed as ‘suck back’. I don’t think you cooled this batch too much, but for future reference be aware it will suck the contents of your airlock into the fermenter if you cool it dramatically.


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« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 07:44:58 am by BrewBama »

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2020, 07:08:15 am »
Welcome to the forum!  You are thinking about one of the most critical aspects in home brewing, so good for you - temperature control impacts flavors significantly.

Depending on the yeast strain, the 70’s are a bit warm.  The 60’s will generally treat you better for fermentation.

On your beer, my guess is the fermentation may have slowed or it simply may have completed its task.  Let it be for a few more days then check hydrometer samples on consecutive days to verify that it is complete.

Air locks are fun to watch, but are not reliable for activity of the yeast (buckets can lose the lid seal easily).

Cheers to your Homebrew!
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 07:09:51 am by ynotbrusum »
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Offline Kevin

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2020, 09:41:26 am »
Two things to start with... a temperature strip on the outside of your bucket is not telling you what is going inside the bucket. Yeast when at their active peak generate heat. The temperature inside your wort may be 10 degrees or more higher than that strip is telling you. The other thing is that by the time you moved that bucket the bulk of fermentation (at those warm temperatures) was done.

That being said however... relax! You are doing the same as countless other homebrewers when they began brewing. Your beer is just fine. It will turn out fine and taste great.

Controlling fermentation is something that will help make your beer turn out even better in the future but there is no need to go spending a lot of money chasing that goal. You said you have a room that stays in the mid 60's so you already have viable solution. It means your fermenting wort will probably be in the mid 70s which is on the upper end of many yeasts.

You can improve your control by using that cool room you describe without spending a lot of money by using what is called a swamp cooler. It's a tub of some sort that you fill with a little cool water. Place your fermenter in the tub and wrap it with a wet towel or T shirt. You can do only this and drop the temperature by a couple of degrees... add a frozen 2 liter bottle of water or two and you can reduce the temperature of your wort by 5 to 10 degrees. It does take a bit of time and effort to check on a couple times of day but it does work. (link to an article below)

Another thing you might want to consider is getting a bung for your fermenter that is also fitted with a thermowell. With a thermometer that has a long enough probe to fit the thermowell you can now monitor the temperature inside the wort.

There are many ways to control fermentation temperature and not all require spending a lot of money on shiny gadgets.

https://homebrewacademy.com/swamp-cooler-homebrew/
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Offline denny

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2020, 09:45:34 am »
Two things to start with... a temperature strip on the outside of your bucket is not telling you what is going inside the bucket. Yeast when at their active peak generate heat. The temperature inside your wort may be 10 degrees or more higher than that strip is telling you. The other thing is that by the time you moved that bucket the bulk of fermentation (at those warm temperatures) was done.

That being said however... relax! You are doing the same as countless other homebrewers when they began brewing. Your beer is just fine. It will turn out fine and taste great.

Controlling fermentation is something that will help make your beer turn out even better in the future but there is no need to go spending a lot of money chasing that goal. You said you have a room that stays in the mid 60's so you already have viable solution. It means your fermenting wort will probably be in the mid 70s which is on the upper end of many yeasts.

You can improve your control by using that cool room you describe without spending a lot of money by using what is called a swamp cooler. It's a tub of some sort that you fill with a little cool water. Place your fermenter in the tub and wrap it with a wet towel or T shirt. You can do only this and drop the temperature by a couple of degrees... add a frozen 2 liter bottle of water or two and you can reduce the temperature of your wort by 5 to 10 degrees. It does take a bit of time and effort to check on a couple times of day but it does work. (link to an article below)

Another thing you might want to consider is getting a bung for your fermenter that is also fitted with a thermowell. With a thermometer that has a long enough probe to fit the thermowell you can now monitor the temperature inside the wort.

There are many ways to control fermentation temperature and not all require spending a lot of money on shiny gadgets.

https://homebrewacademy.com/swamp-cooler-homebrew/

I've gotta disagree.  I've found the stick on thermometers to be remarkably accurate.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Robert

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2020, 09:59:31 am »
Two things to start with... a temperature strip on the outside of your bucket is not telling you what is going inside the bucket. Yeast when at their active peak generate heat. The temperature inside your wort may be 10 degrees or more higher than that strip is telling you. The other thing is that by the time you moved that bucket the bulk of fermentation (at those warm temperatures) was done.

That being said however... relax! You are doing the same as countless other homebrewers when they began brewing. Your beer is just fine. It will turn out fine and taste great.

Controlling fermentation is something that will help make your beer turn out even better in the future but there is no need to go spending a lot of money chasing that goal. You said you have a room that stays in the mid 60's so you already have viable solution. It means your fermenting wort will probably be in the mid 70s which is on the upper end of many yeasts.

You can improve your control by using that cool room you describe without spending a lot of money by using what is called a swamp cooler. It's a tub of some sort that you fill with a little cool water. Place your fermenter in the tub and wrap it with a wet towel or T shirt. You can do only this and drop the temperature by a couple of degrees... add a frozen 2 liter bottle of water or two and you can reduce the temperature of your wort by 5 to 10 degrees. It does take a bit of time and effort to check on a couple times of day but it does work. (link to an article below)

Another thing you might want to consider is getting a bung for your fermenter that is also fitted with a thermowell. With a thermometer that has a long enough probe to fit the thermowell you can now monitor the temperature inside the wort.

There are many ways to control fermentation temperature and not all require spending a lot of money on shiny gadgets.

https://homebrewacademy.com/swamp-cooler-homebrew/

I've gotta disagree.  I've found the stick on thermometers to be remarkably accurate.
They're pretty darned accurate on glass or steel because convection keeps bringing an accurate temperature sample up to the side wall.  But plastic buckets and other HDPE fermentors are very good insulators.   IME not only do the stick on strips register something more like the outside temperature rather than the interior, the temperature inside a plastic fermentor rises much higher than in glass or steel during fermentation.  A thermowell in a plastic fermentor can lead to a shocking discovery.
Rob Stein
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Offline denny

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2020, 10:29:07 am »
Two things to start with... a temperature strip on the outside of your bucket is not telling you what is going inside the bucket. Yeast when at their active peak generate heat. The temperature inside your wort may be 10 degrees or more higher than that strip is telling you. The other thing is that by the time you moved that bucket the bulk of fermentation (at those warm temperatures) was done.

That being said however... relax! You are doing the same as countless other homebrewers when they began brewing. Your beer is just fine. It will turn out fine and taste great.

Controlling fermentation is something that will help make your beer turn out even better in the future but there is no need to go spending a lot of money chasing that goal. You said you have a room that stays in the mid 60's so you already have viable solution. It means your fermenting wort will probably be in the mid 70s which is on the upper end of many yeasts.

You can improve your control by using that cool room you describe without spending a lot of money by using what is called a swamp cooler. It's a tub of some sort that you fill with a little cool water. Place your fermenter in the tub and wrap it with a wet towel or T shirt. You can do only this and drop the temperature by a couple of degrees... add a frozen 2 liter bottle of water or two and you can reduce the temperature of your wort by 5 to 10 degrees. It does take a bit of time and effort to check on a couple times of day but it does work. (link to an article below)

Another thing you might want to consider is getting a bung for your fermenter that is also fitted with a thermowell. With a thermometer that has a long enough probe to fit the thermowell you can now monitor the temperature inside the wort.

There are many ways to control fermentation temperature and not all require spending a lot of money on shiny gadgets.

https://homebrewacademy.com/swamp-cooler-homebrew/

I've gotta disagree.  I've found the stick on thermometers to be remarkably accurate.
They're pretty darned accurate on glass or steel because convection keeps bringing an accurate temperature sample up to the side wall.  But plastic buckets and other HDPE fermentors are very good insulators.   IME not only do the stick on strips register something more like the outside temperature rather than the interior, the temperature inside a plastic fermentor rises much higher than in glass or steel during fermentation.  A thermowell in a plastic fermentor can lead to a shocking discovery.

Once again, but theory is astonished by reality.  Every time I use a stick on, I check it against the internal temp measured with a Thermapen. Never off by more than a degree.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Robert

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2020, 10:38:49 am »
Two things to start with... a temperature strip on the outside of your bucket is not telling you what is going inside the bucket. Yeast when at their active peak generate heat. The temperature inside your wort may be 10 degrees or more higher than that strip is telling you. The other thing is that by the time you moved that bucket the bulk of fermentation (at those warm temperatures) was done.

That being said however... relax! You are doing the same as countless other homebrewers when they began brewing. Your beer is just fine. It will turn out fine and taste great.

Controlling fermentation is something that will help make your beer turn out even better in the future but there is no need to go spending a lot of money chasing that goal. You said you have a room that stays in the mid 60's so you already have viable solution. It means your fermenting wort will probably be in the mid 70s which is on the upper end of many yeasts.

You can improve your control by using that cool room you describe without spending a lot of money by using what is called a swamp cooler. It's a tub of some sort that you fill with a little cool water. Place your fermenter in the tub and wrap it with a wet towel or T shirt. You can do only this and drop the temperature by a couple of degrees... add a frozen 2 liter bottle of water or two and you can reduce the temperature of your wort by 5 to 10 degrees. It does take a bit of time and effort to check on a couple times of day but it does work. (link to an article below)

Another thing you might want to consider is getting a bung for your fermenter that is also fitted with a thermowell. With a thermometer that has a long enough probe to fit the thermowell you can now monitor the temperature inside the wort.

There are many ways to control fermentation temperature and not all require spending a lot of money on shiny gadgets.

https://homebrewacademy.com/swamp-cooler-homebrew/

I've gotta disagree.  I've found the stick on thermometers to be remarkably accurate.
They're pretty darned accurate on glass or steel because convection keeps bringing an accurate temperature sample up to the side wall.  But plastic buckets and other HDPE fermentors are very good insulators.   IME not only do the stick on strips register something more like the outside temperature rather than the interior, the temperature inside a plastic fermentor rises much higher than in glass or steel during fermentation.  A thermowell in a plastic fermentor can lead to a shocking discovery.

Once again, but theory is astonished by reality.  Every time I use a stick on, I check it against the internal temp measured with a Thermapen. Never off by more than a degree.
Opposite of my experience.  Best advice to everyone then is, verify temperature for yourself. 
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline denny

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2020, 11:29:12 am »
Exactly!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline charlie

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2020, 06:41:59 pm »
but i was getting concerned that it was a little too warm (the thermomer on the side of my bucket was reading somwhere between 72F and 75F) so yesterday, I gently moved my fermentor to a colder room. Now, the thermometer reads somewhere between 64F and 68F.

Is that the best accuracy you can get out of your thermometer? If it is then your first purchase should be a more accurate thermometer!

Charlie
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Offline charlie

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2020, 06:52:01 pm »
Also, don’t trust the airlock.

Meh. I have found that gas evolution through the air lock (or blowout tube), absent leaks, is a very accurate indicator of fermentation rate. I have years of observations going back to 2002 that correlate fermentation rate to CO2 evolution precisely!

How do we measure this? The first thing is to establish a "Standard Bubble". My blowout tubes are placed in 1L beakers containing 400 ml of water which places the opening of the tube 1 inch below the surface of the liquid. This gets us a baseline which we can refer to in later stages of fermentation.

Charlie
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Offline Robert

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2020, 07:13:41 pm »


Also, don’t trust the airlock.

Meh. I have found that gas evolution through the air lock (or blowout tube), absent leaks, is a very accurate indicator of fermentation rate. I have years of observations going back to 2002 that correlate fermentation rate to CO2 evolution precisely!

How do we measure this? The first thing is to establish a "Standard Bubble". My blowout tubes are placed in 1L beakers containing 400 ml of water which places the opening of the tube 1 inch below the surface of the liquid. This gets us a baseline which we can refer to in later stages of fermentation.

Charlie

"Absent leaks" and "years of observations" being key, operative phrases here.  Beginners with leaky buckets should take notes, but also learn to observe other indicators so as to establish their own correlations, and not expect to see anyone else's "standard bubble."  Though I do like the notion of a standard bubble.  Hmm... what is the volume of a bubble?  This does come down to volume of CO2 evolved, and since a FFT (and some figuring) can predict the potential there, percent of final attenuation could very accurately be determined by bubble count.  In a system with no leaky bucket, and no beginner using it.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

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Offline chinaski

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2020, 11:27:51 am »
but i was getting concerned that it was a little too warm (the thermomer on the side of my bucket was reading somwhere between 72F and 75F) so yesterday, I gently moved my fermentor to a colder room. Now, the thermometer reads somewhere between 64F and 68F.

Is that the best accuracy you can get out of your thermometer? If it is then your first purchase should be a more accurate thermometer!

Charlie
I wouldn't assume that the poster's only thermometer is a stick-on.  I think its good practice for beginning brewers not to open their fermenter to directly check the temp of the beer- not worth it.  Just let it ride- it'll be fine.

I'll echo the "don't worry" message.  Let the beer sit for another few days or longer and if you can pull a sample after that time by a sanitary method (thief is one) and see if the SG is low (though a milk stout will tend to have a higher FG than typical stouts), do that.  Then let it sit another few days and check again to verify that the SG hasn't changed.  Then package.  If you don't have a way to sample the beer- then just wait another 10-14 days to be sure its done- there is no harm in giving it plenty of time.

Enjoy!


Offline Barbarian Brewer

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2020, 11:49:25 am »
Last year I borrowed a coworker's Tilt Hydometer for a couple brews.  When comparing it to the temperature probe taped to the outside of the bucket I found that during active fermentation the Tilt read 2-3 degrees higher than the side of the bucket.  The fermenter was a standard 5 gallon bucket and the yeast was Wyeast 2112.  So pretty standard fermentation.  I ferment in a chest freezer with an Inkbird controller.  So, no drafts or large shifts in ambient room temperature.  From my experience the side of the bucket/carboy temperature is pretty close to internal wort/beer temperature. 
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Offline charlie

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Re: First time brewer temperature concerns
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2020, 07:23:33 pm »
Though I do like the notion of a standard bubble.  Hmm... what is the volume of a bubble?  This does come down to volume of CO2 evolved, and since a FFT (and some figuring) can predict the potential there, percent of final attenuation could very accurately be determined by bubble count.  In a system with no leaky bucket, and no beginner using it.
There is prior art on the "Standard Bubble", but it is largely dependent on the depth of the tube producing the bubble, hence the 1 inch immersion depth of the blowout tube. I wish I could measure the volume of CO2 produced, but I can't. Yet it would be terribly interesting because the volume of CO2 produced vs ethanol produced is 100% stochiometric. Hell, you could accurately predict the ABV without ever going near a GC!

Charlie 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 08:17:07 pm by charlie »
Yes officer, I know that I smell like beer. I'm not drinking it, I'm wearing it!