Author Topic: BRY 97  (Read 1509 times)

Offline samaral

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BRY 97
« on: January 21, 2020, 09:44:25 PM »
Thinking about using this yeast in a Black IPA. I've never used it before. Anyone have experience with this yeast?

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2020, 10:13:30 PM »
It's good, and it's very laggy.  Expect a good 2-3 days after pitching before it really begins to take off.  From that point it works normally and performs well.  It has similar results to US-05 with slightly lower attenuation.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2020, 10:50:27 PM »
I have also experienced the same lag time with Bry 97. Otherwise, I’ve had good results.

However, if I remember correctly, Robert propagated it up (aka made a starter) and he reported less lag time.


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Offline Robert

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2020, 11:13:39 PM »
I have also experienced the same lag time with Bry 97. Otherwise, I’ve had good results.

However, if I remember correctly, Robert propagated it up (aka made a starter) and he reported less lag time.


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Yes.  I'd nearly forgotten that, but I found my records from that batch.  It seems the first time I checked on it was 6 hours after pitching and it was already active.  Got 80% AA in 5 days. 
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Offline denny

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2020, 11:32:57 PM »
For some reason, I've never noticed anything other than a normal lag.  Guess I'll pay more attention next time.
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2020, 12:45:09 AM »
My current batch had a 1” krausen in 18 hours.  My experience is that Bry-97 doesn’t like to be cold. I had it flocculate once before starting to ferment when the temp dropped to 58-59F. I make sure the temp is 65-66F and it does fine.

Note: I pitch 1 pack into 2.7ish gallons of wort.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2020, 12:47:37 AM »
Note: I pitch 1 pack into 2.7ish gallons of wort.

I'm sure that helps.  That's a significant overpitch, assuming a standard OG of less than say 1.065.
Dave

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Offline samaral

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2020, 12:49:49 AM »
Thanks everyone that's some good info. I don't think I will make a starter but I was thinking of fermenting around 68. Anyone use at that temp?

Offline Robert

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2020, 12:53:11 AM »
My batch with the starter was pitched at 64°F and peak temperature in the ferment (not ambient) was 69°F at 72 hours.
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Offline narvin

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2020, 03:19:26 AM »

Offline BrewBama

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BRY 97
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2020, 02:02:12 PM »
Note: I pitch 1 pack into 2.7ish gallons of wort.

I'm sure that helps.  That's a significant overpitch, assuming a standard OG of less than say 1.065.

This comment triggered some thought in me. The lengthy lag I have experienced with this yeast has always been at ~.5 grams per liter wort (11 grams in 5.5 US gallons).

Lately, I have been using ~1 gram dry yeast per liter wort (2 packs per 5.5 gallon) ...but haven’t used BRY97 since I began this.

While that can be considered a significant overpitch according to some, one mfr recommends .5 - .8 grams per liter in ales and .8 - 1.2 grams per liter in lager. ...which is where I got the idea. BRY97’s mfr recommends “50 - 100g/hL to achieve a minimum of 2.5 - 5 million cells/mL” (aka .5 - 1 gram per liter wort).

I have just been rounding to the whole pack in both Ale and Lager which is ~.2 grams per liter overpitch for Ale according to one mfr but simply at the higher end of the pitch rate range for this mfr.

I figure the extra couple bucks invested in the second pack is worth the great starts, fast finishes, and spot on AA I have been generally getting since I began the practice. I have had one instance where MJ M54 stopped higher than I expected even at the 1 gram per liter rate. 

Mangrove Jack. Imagine that.

This slight ‘overpitch’ (or simply pitching at the higher end of the range) may be why both Tommy and Robert didn’t experience the lag.

As Lallemand puts it, “Lag phase, total fermentation time, attenuation and flavor are dependent on pitch rate, yeast handling, fermentation temperature and nutritional quality of the wort.”

I think I’ll try it again at 1 gram per liter at 66*F +/- 2* F.


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« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 06:59:10 PM by BrewBama »
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Offline Robert

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2020, 02:31:47 PM »
That will be interesting to hear about, BrewBama!  I had always heard that it was laggy in the first generation, but not repitches.  So I thought putting it through a couple of starter steps might get it over its lagginess before it got into my main batch.  But it makes sense that it might just all come down to pitch rate.  Repitching, we're usually pitching at a higher rate.  A big starter or an extra pack of dry yeast would accomplish the same thing.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2020, 02:52:19 PM »
Excellent discussion!  I agree on a lot of points.

One thing I'd like to point out -- not sure if this is an item of confusion or contention, or just my imagination -- I think fermentation TEMPERATURE is the essential variable on pitch rate, as opposed to whether a "lager" yeast or "ale" yeast is being used.  For instance, if I want to use US-05 down at 55 F, I'm going to double my pitch rate, and conversely if I feel like using S-189 or W-34/70 or whatever "lager" yeast you can think of but warmer at like 65 F well then I only need to use half as much as for a "normal lager".  In other words, ANY typical dried yeast strain of the two main species Sacch. cerev. or Sacch. past. might need about 0.25 g/L at 65 F, or 0.5 g/L at 50-55 F, regardless of most other factors, except higher gravity, etc.

Get what I mean?  If it matters -- maybe ya'll already agreed with me anyway.  :)

And then maybe since we know BRY-97 tends to be laggy, well maybe we really should be doubling the standard rates, to say 0.5 g/L for warm ferms or up to 1.0-1.5 g/L for cool ferms.  So ultimately, I think we might all be on the same page... except that I still think we all tend to overpitch all dried yeasts (I have a previous lengthy thread out there on this... https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=27438.0).  So for this yeast, I think an "over-pitch" is just what the doctor ordered, for this particular strain, due to its unique lagginess.

EDIT: I was off on a few numbers, halved them now.  And added a link to that old lengthy thread on overpitching.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 02:59:21 PM by dmtaylor »
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Offline denny

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Re: BRY 97
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2020, 02:55:07 PM »
How does pitching more yeast decrease lag time?
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Offline BrewBama

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BRY 97
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2020, 04:04:10 PM »
How does pitching more yeast decrease lag time?

I don’t know the how. I shot the mfr a note to ask why they wrote that statement.

In the mean time I found this statement (below) but the writer offers no explanation.

“The pitching rate, too, plays a significant role in the effectiveness and length of the lag phase. Overpitching can decrease the lag phase, but, because each cell grows the same number of new cells, the result may be too many old, worn-out cells at the end of fermentation. This can lead to off- flavors and low viability if this yeast is subsequently repitched.” https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/MkKGQWjuiT/

...and this: “The shortest lag phase and time to the first division were obtained with largest inocula and with the youngest inoculated parent cells.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21511143/

Though not with BRY97, I have seen evidence on my Tilt that shows very short lag after pitching 2 vs 1 packs.

This Brülosophy experiment also showed shorter lag with more 34/70 vs longer lag with less:

A “day later, the overpitched beer was in full-swing as the underpitched batch appeared as though little was going on.” ...”the underpitched batch took nearly 2 days longer to show signs of active fermentation compared to the overpitched batch, which may be viewed by some as reason enough to pitch more yeast“

http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/07/yeast-pitch-rate-pt-5-underpitch-vs-overpitch-in-a-lager-exbeeriment-results/

Hopefully, the mfr can explain the how all this works. Maybe their explanation will satiate our curiosity.

Edit: I speculate that since the yeast cell count is doubled in the higher pitch rate, they use up the components in the wort that trigger the transition from lag to growth at a higher rate therefore reducing the lag time.

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« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 03:00:16 PM by BrewBama »
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