Author Topic: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?  (Read 457 times)

Online BrewBama

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2020, 09:44:47 PM »
I look at nutrient as an insurance policy. It’s still possible to make a good beer without it and I’d still brew if I ran out, but I like the effect I believe I am getting with it on my fermentations.


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Offline denny

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2020, 09:47:11 PM »
... Wyeast nutrient can be used to supplement zinc as well.

+1. I had a Danstar Regional Rep recommend Wyeast nutrient as a go-to — even over their own brand of nutrient. That’s a pretty strong endorsement IMO.



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... Wyeast nutrient can be used to supplement zinc as well.

+1. I had a Danstar Regional Rep recommend Wyeast nutrient as a go-to — even over their own brand of nutrient. That’s a pretty strong endorsement IMO.
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Never in over 20 years of brewing have we used any added nutrients. Is this something we need to do?
Note the date on the smack-packs was last November. 3 months old. First time using the Czech Pils yeast.

The CO2 explosions are now every 6 seconds as the beer has warmed to 53.9 F.

Do you need to?  Probably not.  But I find it cheap insurance.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2020, 11:05:29 PM »
If you think you have healthy yeast and are pitching properly but are not coming close to these times then you don’t and aren’t.
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2020, 12:45:36 AM »
If you think you have healthy yeast and are pitching properly but are not coming close to these times then you don’t and aren’t.
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Would the less than 8 hour lag time indicate yeast of good health? Would the CO2 triple-bubble explosions on 3 to 4 second intervals (@ 49F), like clockwork, not indicate healthy yeast?
These are the indicators that we have always used.
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Online BrewBama

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2020, 12:55:11 AM »
I think you have good indications of a healthy fermentation.


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Offline Robert

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2020, 01:41:38 AM »
Your lag time does look good; bubble rate is very hard to translate from one equipment setup to another, though you can certainly use it as an index to tell whether things are proceeding as usual. 

Again I suggest you consider the possibility of zinc deficiency.   This leads to stunted yeast growth and then not only slow and possibly underattenuated fermentation,  but also other effects such as increased sulfur production and incomplete diacetyl reduction. 

The unique problem with zinc among the necessary yeast nutrients is that it is chelated by substances such as amino acids and proteins in malt and wort and precipitated, so that most of the zinc in water and malt is retained in the spent grains and in the trub after the boil.  Action is usually required to ensure that sufficient zinc is present in the fermentor.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2020, 02:13:12 AM »
One thing to note is that the rate of bubbles is affected by the size (diameter) of the blowoff tube.  The wider the diameter, the larger the bubble, so the greater the release of CO2 in the bubble.
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2020, 02:31:54 AM »
One thing to note is that the rate of bubbles is affected by the size (diameter) of the blowoff tube.  The wider the diameter, the larger the bubble, so the greater the release of CO2 in the bubble.

Your lag time does look good; bubble rate is very hard to translate from one equipment setup to another, though you can certainly use it as an index to tell whether things are proceeding as usual. 

Again I suggest you consider the possibility of zinc deficiency.   This leads to stunted yeast growth and then not only slow and possibly underattenuated fermentation,  but also other effects such as increased sulfur production and incomplete diacetyl reduction. 

The unique problem with zinc among the necessary yeast nutrients is that it is chelated by substances such as amino acids and proteins in malt and wort and precipitated, so that most of the zinc in water and malt is retained in the spent grains and in the trub after the boil.  Action is usually required to ensure that sufficient zinc is present in the fermentor.

Yes. This was a triple decoc mash. First time to use this conical SS fermenter. We did open air fermentation before.
Blow tube is 1/4" ID. Not huge by any means. But there is a large volume of CO2 moving through the line.

We will just be patient and see how it turns out. An online search showed a wide range of times for lagers to complete. 10 days to 4 weeks.

This is also the first time we injected pure O2. A 40 second blast was placed in the cooled wort.
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Offline Richard

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2020, 05:47:22 AM »
Oxygen should not be blasted into the wort. If you see big bubbles coming to the surface, that is oxygen that has not been dissolved -- it is just wasted. Ideally you would have a sintered stone that generates very small bubbles that would dissolve into the liquid before they get to the surface. In the absence of a flow meter, aim for just enough flow that  you can perhaps hear some bubbling and see a small disturbance of the surface.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2020, 01:08:52 PM »
10 days to 4 weeks is not normal time to FG.  Those times are normal for the entire process including cold storage for clarification.  5-6 days is normal for reaching FG in lager fermentation.
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Online BrewBama

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Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2020, 01:42:04 PM »
[.... An online search showed a wide range of times for lagers to complete. 10 days to 4 weeks.
...

Among several other contributing factors I am sure, I believe long lethargic fermentation and off smells and tastes are a symptom of stress.  Far too many home brewers use too little yeast IMO. ...especially lager yeast. 

Some beers can take advantage of the stress to induce a certain flavor. But by and large, that is not the case. 

I was in the same boat but began pitching more and saw a dramatic difference. I used to dread brewing a lager, now it’s just another beer.


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« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 01:44:54 PM by BrewBama »
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2020, 01:47:03 PM »
Oxygen should not be blasted into the wort. If you see big bubbles coming to the surface, that is oxygen that has not been dissolved -- it is just wasted. Ideally you would have a sintered stone that generates very small bubbles that would dissolve into the liquid before they get to the surface. In the absence of a flow meter, aim for just enough flow that  you can perhaps hear some bubbling and see a small disturbance of the surface.

A stainless diffusion stone from a brewing supply, .5 micron, was used. Some very small bubbles were seen as they migrated through the wort and gently disturbed the surface. Again, we have never done this before. And we do not have a flow meter. So we just "eyeballed" it. About 40 seconds of O2.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 01:59:29 PM by Myron Oleson »
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2020, 01:55:44 PM »
[.... An online search showed a wide range of times for lagers to complete. 10 days to 4 weeks.
...

Among several other contributing factors I am sure, I believe long lethargic fermentation and off smells and tastes are a symptom of stress.  Far too many home brewers use too little yeast IMO. ...especially lager yeast. 

Some beers can take advantage of the stress to induce a certain flavor. But by and large, that is not the case. 

I was in the same boat but began pitching more and saw a dramatic difference. I used to dread brewing a lager, now it’s just another beer.


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I guess we are in a different boat...or keg, as we have brewed lagers pretty much exclusively for 20+ years.
We purposely over pitched the yeast. One swollen smack pack, plus a starter that was on it's 3rd generation.

Based on the large volume of CO2 present in the ferment chamber, plus the healthy blow off of CO2, this would not be categorized as a "lethargic" ferment. Quite the opposite.

We are now in day 9, at 55 degrees F, and the ferment activity is as strong as it was at the beginning.

There are zero "off odors". And the beer tasted good last Sunday. But it was still sweet, telling me it has a ways to go to completion. I will have to be patient, and have confidence that it will turn out just fine.

This is brewed for a brewing partner, who is completely new to the art of making beer.
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Offline Iliff Ave Brewhouse

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2020, 02:13:01 PM »
I apologize if this has already been addressed. Have you taken a hydrometer reading to see where you're at? No offense but if you have been brewing lagers for 20+ years, shouldn't you know what to expect?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 02:16:45 PM by Iliff Ave Brewhouse »
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Time to reach FG/full attenuation?
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2020, 02:50:22 PM »
I apologize if this has already been addressed. Have you taken a hydrometer reading to see where you're at? No offense but if you have been brewing lagers for 20+ years, shouldn't you know what to expect?

No offense taken! Yes, after 20+ years we generally have a pretty good idea as to what's going on. This one is taking a bit longer, with obvious signs of ongoing active fermentation, even after it's 9th day. Hence the question on average time for a lager.

My star-date brewing logs are intact, so will browse to check on historical data.

Never taken a hydrometer reading. Not one time in my brewing history. We always went by sound, smell, taste, and time. Surprisingly, it has worked for us quite well. I know this is blasphemy, and certainly I'll be labeled as a heretic!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 02:52:59 PM by Myron Oleson »
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