Author Topic: I know.....another NEIPA Water Profile Thread/ Water Calc Program Preference  (Read 1245 times)

Offline BCaplette

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Still relatively new to home brewing.  I've brewed one on my own (NEIPA) and now in the past month I've done 6 with other home brewers including one of those with a commercial brewery (1 NEIPA,1 Milkshake IPA, 1 Hazy Pale Ale, 1 Stout, 1 Lager, 1 Irish Red) .  I'm getting ready to do number 2 on my own, another NEIPA and wanted some opinions on water profiles after picking some other peoples brain and reading some articles,  I'm going to use all RO (knowledge is power!)

Now I know typical conversation brings up the 2:1 or even 3:1.  But I came across this http://thirdleapbrew.com/technical/ward-labs-mineral-analysis-of-tree-house-julius/   What are your thoughts from experience?  I'm actually thinking of doing two separate one at 2:1 one at 1:1 for experimenting.

Also I've tried EZ and Bru'n and when I start imputing the CaCl, Gypsum and Epsom neither comes out to the same.  Bru is telling me about 1.5-2 grams less using all RO water.  Brewer's Friend and the Brewfather app same thing.  Nothing is consistent and to me a gram or even 1/2 gram is a big difference.
Thoughts?

Offline kramerog

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I'm assuming your ratios are sulfate:chloride.  High ratios are typical when the goal is to shoot for a dry finish which used to be typical for IPAs.  A low or even ratio is used for body although the amount of salts is as important as the ratio itself.

Regarding the calculators, are you treating the sparge and mash water the same? Just a thought.

Offline denny

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I've used both RD and Bru'nwater.  I found Bru'water to give me better results.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline BCaplette

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No other way around Chloride to Sulfate.    Extract so it's all boil,

The are the total salt additions and final profiles from what I'm putting in for a 1:1
CA-MG-NA-SO4-CL for the profiles

Bru'n- 3.2g - Gypsum, 3.2g  CaCl, .7g Epsom
Final Profile- 142-5-8-154-156

EZ- same Additions
Final Profile- 122-5-8-159-118

Brewfather- Same additions
Final Profile-132-6-30-168-129

Offline BCaplette

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I've used both RD and Bru'nwater.  I found Bru'water to give me better results.


Thanks for the input.  That's what I'm looking for, what have people had better results with

Offline kramerog

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I've used both RD and Bru'nwater.  I found Bru'water to give me better results.


Thanks for the input.  That's what I'm looking for, what have people had better results with
Bru'n Water is the most tried and tested for mash pH which probably means that its ion concentrations are probably the best too.  The Brewfather calculations don't seem right because of its much higher sodium estimate; I assume the sodium is from your water profile. 


Offline denny

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I've used both RD and Bru'nwater.  I found Bru'water to give me better results.


Thanks for the input.  That's what I'm looking for, what have people had better results with
Bru'n Water is the most tried and tested for mash pH which probably means that its ion concentrations are probably the best too.  The Brewfather calculations don't seem right because of its much higher sodium estimate; I assume the sodium is from your water profile.

Not just pH.  Flavor, too.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline BCaplette

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I've used both RD and Bru'nwater.  I found Bru'water to give me better results.


Thanks for the input.  That's what I'm looking for, what have people had better results with
Bru'n Water is the most tried and tested for mash pH which probably means that its ion concentrations are probably the best too.  The Brewfather calculations don't seem right because of its much higher sodium estimate; I assume the sodium is from your water profile.



I'm going straight from RO

Offline BCaplette

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I've used both RD and Bru'nwater.  I found Bru'water to give me better results.


Thanks for the input.  That's what I'm looking for, what have people had better results with
Bru'n Water is the most tried and tested for mash pH which probably means that its ion concentrations are probably the best too.  The Brewfather calculations don't seem right because of its much higher sodium estimate; I assume the sodium is from your water profile.

Not just pH.  Flavor, too.



Thanks Denny.  I think I'm going to trust Bru and go for a PPM of 150:150:150 (Ca:CL:So4)

Offline mainebrewer

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No other way around Chloride to Sulfate.    Extract so it's all boil,

The are the total salt additions and final profiles from what I'm putting in for a 1:1
CA-MG-NA-SO4-CL for the profiles

Bru'n- 3.2g - Gypsum, 3.2g  CaCl, .7g Epsom
Final Profile- 142-5-8-154-156

EZ- same Additions
Final Profile- 122-5-8-159-118

Brewfather- Same additions
Final Profile-132-6-30-168-129

If I read this correctly, this is a beer made with malt extract. If so, even with RO water you won't have an entirely blank sheet to work with when building your water profile since you don't know what water profile the extract manuf used.
"It's not that people are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that just isn't true." Ronald Reagan

Offline BCaplette

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No other way around Chloride to Sulfate.    Extract so it's all boil,

The are the total salt additions and final profiles from what I'm putting in for a 1:1
CA-MG-NA-SO4-CL for the profiles

Bru'n- 3.2g - Gypsum, 3.2g  CaCl, .7g Epsom
Final Profile- 142-5-8-154-156

EZ- same Additions
Final Profile- 122-5-8-159-118

Brewfather- Same additions
Final Profile-132-6-30-168-129

If I read this correctly, this is a beer made with malt extract. If so, even with RO water you won't have an entirely blank sheet to work with when building your water profile since you don't know what water profile the extract manuf used.

Partially true.  Partial Mash, it was going to be extract but I’m going to temper the extract back and go more of a partial since my Brewers Edge came in sooner than I thought

Offline Silver_Is_Money

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Bru'n Water presumes that Calcium Chloride is anhydrous (100% pure).  Most others presume that it is in the dihydrate state (~75.5% pure).  Neither is correct sans for occasional blind luck.

I've tested fresh bottles of it twice in my day, and when first cracked open it is about 94-96 percent pure.  But it is forever assimilating water from the humidity in the air, and before long it can be factually well less than 75% pure.  But until it eventually turns into a liquid goo, it always looks the same.

If you have access to a precision analytical balance, put some on the balance, then sit back and watch its weight go up.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 12:39:05 am by Silver_Is_Money »

Offline Richard

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The newest version of Bru'n Water does NOT assume that CaCl is anhydrous. You have a choice of anhydrous, dihydrate or liquid. If you choose liquid you can enter your strength.
Original Gravity - that would be Newton's

Offline Silver_Is_Money

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The newest version of Bru'n Water does NOT assume that CaCl is anhydrous. You have a choice of anhydrous, dihydrate or liquid. If you choose liquid you can enter your strength.

It used to be that the free version was locked to anhydrite (or anhydrous), and the pay version let you make a change to the dihydride.  I was presuming the free version.

What is really needed is software that can be set to any purity percentage.

Offline Richard

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When I said that Bru'n Water allows you to enter the strength of liquid CaCl, I was referring to the purity percentage. If you choose liquid there is a solution strength calculator into which you can enter the SG of your liquid and get the strength in % weight/weight to enter into the liquid strength field. It sounds as if that is what you are looking for.
Original Gravity - that would be Newton's