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Author Topic: Pellet vs Dried Whole  (Read 5075 times)

Offline majorvices

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2020, 01:36:20 pm »
This Old House did a season out in Paradise, CA late last year after the fire.  One of their side stories was a visit to Sierra Nevada brewery.  One part of the visit was a tour of the brew house.  In the background you could see 2 men using shovels to fill trash cans with whole leaf hops straight off bails.  It didn't look like it was for show.  Later they showed someone dumping a trash can full of hops into a fermenter.

I didn't really think about it while watching the show but I never saw any pellets.

Paul


We try to imitate the pros. If it works for them, maybe it works for us!

That said, just to be clear, as a probrewer I way prefer pellets. Just sayin'. ;)

Offline denny

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2020, 01:41:27 pm »
This Old House did a season out in Paradise, CA late last year after the fire.  One of their side stories was a visit to Sierra Nevada brewery.  One part of the visit was a tour of the brew house.  In the background you could see 2 men using shovels to fill trash cans with whole leaf hops straight off bails.  It didn't look like it was for show.  Later they showed someone dumping a trash can full of hops into a fermenter.

I didn't really think about it while watching the show but I never saw any pellets.

Paul

I've been in that freezer when I went to Beer Camp there.  On the last day they handed each of us a box of gal. ziploc bags and said "help yourself".  When I brewed in the pilot brewery we dumped trash cans full of whole hops in.  Than was when Steve Dressler was the brewmaster there and he had a real thing for whole hops.  Ran into him at selection at Yakima Chief a few times.
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Offline denny

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2020, 01:42:50 pm »
This Old House did a season out in Paradise, CA late last year after the fire.  One of their side stories was a visit to Sierra Nevada brewery.  One part of the visit was a tour of the brew house.  In the background you could see 2 men using shovels to fill trash cans with whole leaf hops straight off bails.  It didn't look like it was for show.  Later they showed someone dumping a trash can full of hops into a fermenter.

I didn't really think about it while watching the show but I never saw any pellets.

Paul

We try to imitate the pros. If it works for them, maybe it works for us!

Many more "pros" use pellets than whole, so if that's your criteria, you should switch to pellets.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline majorvices

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2020, 04:40:37 pm »
This Old House did a season out in Paradise, CA late last year after the fire.  One of their side stories was a visit to Sierra Nevada brewery.  One part of the visit was a tour of the brew house.  In the background you could see 2 men using shovels to fill trash cans with whole leaf hops straight off bails.  It didn't look like it was for show.  Later they showed someone dumping a trash can full of hops into a fermenter.

I didn't really think about it while watching the show but I never saw any pellets.

Paul

We try to imitate the pros. If it works for them, maybe it works for us!

Many more "pros" use pellets than whole, so if that's your criteria, you should switch to pellets.

Been pro-brewing for over 10 years now and I can attest NO ONE but Sierra Nevada used cone that I know of except for in hop backs. That doesn't mean anyone who likes whole cone should switch IMO if it works for them.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2020, 07:47:39 pm »
This Old House did a season out in Paradise, CA late last year after the fire.  One of their side stories was a visit to Sierra Nevada brewery.  One part of the visit was a tour of the brew house.  In the background you could see 2 men using shovels to fill trash cans with whole leaf hops straight off bails.  It didn't look like it was for show.  Later they showed someone dumping a trash can full of hops into a fermenter.

I didn't really think about it while watching the show but I never saw any pellets.

Paul

We try to imitate the pros. If it works for them, maybe it works for us!

Many more "pros" use pellets than whole, so if that's your criteria, you should switch to pellets.

Been pro-brewing for over 10 years now and I can attest NO ONE but Sierra Nevada used cone that I know of except for in hop backs. That doesn't mean anyone who likes whole cone should switch IMO if it works for them.

Sierra Nevada, Deschutes, Victory are whole cone hops breweries.
Jeff Rankert
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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2020, 03:19:07 am »
I don't believe it's a matter of being different, it's a matter of being able to sense the difference.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1997-03-20-9703170256-story.html

That's why I take it with "a grain of salt" when taste tests are done, only 25% have what it takes.

https://www.amazon.com/Super-Taster-Test-Storage-Instructions/dp/B00BEZ5KJQ

From what I have read over the years, supertasters have an elevated sensitivity to bitterness. Other tastes are not elevated from what I have read.

Taste is sweet, sour, bitter, salty and umami. Flavors come from the sense of taste and aroma. About 80% of our flavor comes from aroma.

Everyone has flavor blind spots. There are 20% that don't perceive diacetyl. I know someone who doesn't pick up chlorophynol.

Tasting panels have multiple evaluators. The evaluators are often screened with off flavor testing. I've had a couple of off flavor trying sessions, those can be an interesting experience.

https://portal-siebel.lallemand.com/sensory-training-kits

Thanks

Offline majorvices

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2020, 06:37:09 am »
This Old House did a season out in Paradise, CA late last year after the fire.  One of their side stories was a visit to Sierra Nevada brewery.  One part of the visit was a tour of the brew house.  In the background you could see 2 men using shovels to fill trash cans with whole leaf hops straight off bails.  It didn't look like it was for show.  Later they showed someone dumping a trash can full of hops into a fermenter.

I didn't really think about it while watching the show but I never saw any pellets.

Paul

We try to imitate the pros. If it works for them, maybe it works for us!

Many more "pros" use pellets than whole, so if that's your criteria, you should switch to pellets.

Been pro-brewing for over 10 years now and I can attest NO ONE but Sierra Nevada used cone that I know of except for in hop backs. That doesn't mean anyone who likes whole cone should switch IMO if it works for them.

Sierra Nevada, Deschutes, Victory are whole cone hops breweries.

Well there ya go. I stand corrected.

Offline Silver_Is_Money

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2020, 07:01:23 am »
I get far less annoying vegital grassiness flavor from whole cone vs. pellet.  And therefore less need to age out such off flavors.

Offline denny

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2020, 08:30:42 am »
I get far less annoying vegital grassiness flavor from whole cone vs. pellet.  And therefore less need to age out such off flavors.

Interesting since they either have equal bract, or pellet maybe a bit less.  Have you done a blind comparison ?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Silver_Is_Money

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2020, 08:36:22 am »
Interesting since they either have equal bract, or pellet maybe a bit less.  Have you done a blind comparison ?

No, I have not.  I probably should though.

Offline Northern_Brewer

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2020, 08:40:25 am »
Been pro-brewing for over 10 years now and I can attest NO ONE but Sierra Nevada used cone that I know of except for in hop backs.

Still widespread in the UK though, particularly for traditional British styles.

Offline Silver_Is_Money

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2020, 08:53:56 am »
It would be interesting to see a decent study undertaken whereby IBU's are analyzed totally individually and separately for additions made with 90, 60, 45, 30, 15, and 1 minute respective remaining boil times for whole cone and T-90 pellet hops sourced from the same hop farm, picked on the same date from the same plants, and with identical weights of addition with regard specifically to AA's.  And of course with identical worts (for which 12 Plato sounds about right for such a test).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 09:14:30 am by Silver_Is_Money »

Offline denny

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2020, 09:26:49 am »
It would be interesting to see a decent study undertaken whereby IBU's are analyzed totally individually and separately for additions made with 90, 60, 45, 30, 15, and 1 minute respective remaining boil times for whole cone and T-90 pellet hops sourced from the same hop farm, picked on the same date from the same plants, and with identical weights of addition with regard specifically to AA's.  And of course with identical worts (for which 12 Plato sounds about right for such a test).

The problem with that is that there's no way to get both pellets and whole hops from the same lots.  And that's been done many years ago....you get about 10% more IBUs from pellets.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2020, 10:13:51 am »
This Old House did a season out in Paradise, CA late last year after the fire.  One of their side stories was a visit to Sierra Nevada brewery.  One part of the visit was a tour of the brew house.  In the background you could see 2 men using shovels to fill trash cans with whole leaf hops straight off bails.  It didn't look like it was for show.  Later they showed someone dumping a trash can full of hops into a fermenter.

I didn't really think about it while watching the show but I never saw any pellets.

Paul

We try to imitate the pros. If it works for them, maybe it works for us!

Many more "pros" use pellets than whole, so if that's your criteria, you should switch to pellets.

Been pro-brewing for over 10 years now and I can attest NO ONE but Sierra Nevada used cone that I know of except for in hop backs. That doesn't mean anyone who likes whole cone should switch IMO if it works for them.

Sierra Nevada, Deschutes, Victory are whole cone hops breweries.

Sorry folks.

I didn't intend to take a stand on either side of this discussion.  I just thought it was cool TOH did a segment on SN.

For what it's worth, I use mostly, if not all, pellets.  They take up less space in the freezer and have always worked well for me.  IMHO, YMMV, SWMBO approved and all that jazz.

Paul
Where the heck are we going?  And what's with this hand basket?

Offline Silver_Is_Money

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Re: Pellet vs Dried Whole
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2020, 10:22:49 am »
This guy did a carefully undertaken study which revealed that at only about 25 minutes of boil time, T-90 pellet hops have already released essentially all of the IBU's to the wort that they are ever going to release.  For whole hops you would expect this to require more on the order of from 60 to 90 minutes of boil time.  The IBU release for pellets therefore takes place vastly sooner than for whole, and this must be true for the really short boil times as well, making it likely that the old adage of 10% more across the board IBU's for pellets is clearly obsolete, and for really short duration remaining boil times it may even be more like magnitudes more.

https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/a/c/3acf77263e1cd1d4/EBC_2018_Hamilton.pdf?c_id=25172141&cs_id=25172141&expiration=1583772119&hwt=874cf1d1b35efb22db5ef7bfbb612229