Author Topic: SafeLager W-34/70 Question  (Read 4350 times)

Offline KellerBrauer

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 625
  • Bottoms Up!
SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« on: March 23, 2020, 01:07:07 pm »
Greetings - I brewed a German Amber Kellerbier yesterday using the SafeLager 34/70 yeast.  I rehydrated and pitched at about 4:00PM into 62°F wort after a typical aeration.  After pitching, I placed my fermenter into my fermentation chamber and set the temperature to 55°.  It’s now about 16 hours later and I see no sign of fermentation.  I raised the temp this morning to 70° to try and get some action.  Any ideas?  I’ve never experienced a lag-time this long.  Is this a slow starting yeast?
Joliet, IL

All good things come to those who show patients and perseverance while maintaining a positive and progressive attitude. 😉

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10896
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2020, 01:14:43 pm »
First off, 16 hours is not a problem. 70 degrees "might" be. I would have lowered the beer to my pitching temp (you say 55, that works) then aerated and pitched. Second, I would have used 2 packets (or more depending on the gravity). Dry yeast just sometimes has a longer lag. You need not stress over 24-48 hours (though, I do agree that you probably should target a 12-24 hour lag time if at all possible. Other wise you haven't pitched enough yeast.)

The problem with starting a lager off "warm" is that you will be developing unwanted esters - even during the lag. That said, I have heard of award winning brewers who practice this method with success. But I have always found better results with pitching at or near fermentation temp target.

Offline KellerBrauer

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 625
  • Bottoms Up!
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2020, 01:26:43 pm »
First off, 16 hours is not a problem. 70 degrees "might" be. I would have lowered the beer to my pitching temp (you say 55, that works) then aerated and pitched. Second, I would have used 2 packets (or more depending on the gravity). Dry yeast just sometimes has a longer lag. You need not stress over 24-48 hours (though, I do agree that you probably should target a 12-24 hour lag time if at all possible. Other wise you haven't pitched enough yeast.)

The problem with starting a lager off "warm" is that you will be developing unwanted esters - even during the lag. That said, I have heard of award winning brewers who practice this method with success. But I have always found better results with pitching at or near fermentation temp target.

Thanks for this input.
I used two (2) 11.5g packets of yeast.
The batch size is 5 gallons.
SG was 1.057
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 01:30:52 pm by KellerBrauer »
Joliet, IL

All good things come to those who show patients and perseverance while maintaining a positive and progressive attitude. 😉

Offline Kevin

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
  • Great beer. Less work. More fun.
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2020, 01:53:19 pm »
I regularly use 34/70. I pitch the dry yeast directly into the wort at 60F and hold fermentation at 64 to 66. It does take some time to show signs of fermentation but that doesn't mean  there isn't anything going on. Let the yeast work. btw, I have never had an issue with esters starting fermentation at those temps.
“He was a wise man who invented beer.”
- Plato

TXFlyGuy

  • Guest
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2020, 02:10:20 pm »
Greetings - I brewed a German Amber Kellerbier yesterday using the SafeLager 34/70 yeast.  I rehydrated and pitched at about 4:00PM into 62°F wort after a typical aeration.  After pitching, I placed my fermenter into my fermentation chamber and set the temperature to 55°.  It’s now about 16 hours later and I see no sign of fermentation.  I raised the temp this morning to 70° to try and get some action.  Any ideas?  I’ve never experienced a lag-time this long.  Is this a slow starting yeast?

I have an entire thread on this subject. It takes 34/70 a minimum of 36 to 48 hours to get going. It is very slow starting based on my experience with this.

Yes, this is a slow starting yeast...at least when using the dry version.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=34667.0
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 02:16:20 pm by Bel Air Brewing »

Offline KellerBrauer

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 625
  • Bottoms Up!
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2020, 03:23:33 pm »
Thank you!  I must have missed this thread about this yeast!  Oops!!

Ill relax and have a Home Brew!

Thanks All!!  :)
Joliet, IL

All good things come to those who show patients and perseverance while maintaining a positive and progressive attitude. 😉

TXFlyGuy

  • Guest
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2020, 03:32:09 pm »
Thank you!  I must have missed this thread about this yeast!  Oops!!

Ill relax and have a Home Brew!

Thanks All!!  :)

Yes...have a beer and relax! I did a very small (3 gal) batch with excess wort, and pitched one packet of 34/70 just a few days ago. It is just now beginning to show signs of fermentation.

Patience is a virtue.

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1605
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2020, 03:52:03 pm »
I have some 34/70 in my fridge but I have never used it.  I know many, many brewers who love it but they all mention that on the first run, it can be slow.  In related news, I recently ran about 6 or 7 batches using Lallemand Diamond (it seems to be very 34/70-like... a dry version of 2124) and I used just one packet on the first batch and I did not rehydrate... I just sprinkled it over the top of the wort.  I had active fermentation in about 16 hours which I thought was reasonable.  Really nice yeast and it proves to me that dry yeasts are getting better and better.  If someone were to come out with a dry version of Omega Bayern and WL940 I may never go back to liquid.  :P
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4824
SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2020, 04:01:00 pm »
FWIW: though it may show characteristics like 2124, 34/70 is pretty far from 2124 genetically. It’s closer to WY2112/WLP810.  Not that it really matters. I just find the genetics interesting.

WLP940 is close genetically to S-23.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 04:10:22 pm by BrewBama »
wisdom is proved right by her deeds

Brewed in the Tennessee Valley. Rocket City — Huntsville AL

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1605
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2020, 04:22:52 pm »
Never saw that before.  I really like the character of 940.  I have used S23 but never considered it close to the character of 940 but I should try it again.  Most 34/70 brewers I know say the flavor characteristics of it are very similar to 2124 and I thought Diamond was too.  2124 has been a favorite lager yeast of mine for a very long time and I love the aroma of a beer made with it.  Then again, I could say that about a number of others too.  Cheers BB.
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline KellerBrauer

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 625
  • Bottoms Up!
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2020, 04:43:10 pm »
FWIW: though it may show characteristics like 2124, 34/70 is pretty far from 2124 genetically. It’s closer to WY2112/WLP810.  Not that it really matters. I just find the genetics interesting.

WLP940 is close genetically to S-23.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Fascinating information.  I wanted to use the WY2206, but my LHBS was out, so they recommended the 34/70.  I thought i would give it a go.
Joliet, IL

All good things come to those who show patients and perseverance while maintaining a positive and progressive attitude. 😉

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 24635
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2020, 04:52:32 pm »
Never saw that before.  I really like the character of 940.  I have used S23 but never considered it close to the character of 940 but I should try it again.  Most 34/70 brewers I know say the flavor characteristics of it are very similar to 2124 and I thought Diamond was too.  2124 has been a favorite lager yeast of mine for a very long time and I love the aroma of a beer made with it.  Then again, I could say that about a number of others too.  Cheers BB.

I have info from the manufacturers that both 34/70 and Diamnond are related to 2124.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 24635
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2020, 04:54:18 pm »
FWIW: though it may show characteristics like 2124, 34/70 is pretty far from 2124 genetically. It’s closer to WY2112/WLP810.  Not that it really matters. I just find the genetics interesting.

WLP940 is close genetically to S-23.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Fascinating information.  I wanted to use the WY2206, but my LHBS was out, so they recommended the 34/70.  I thought i would give it a go.

They won't make the same kind of beer.  34/70 will give you a light crisp mouthfeel and 2206 will be fuller and malted.  Notb an game changerk but a difference
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Steve Ruch

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1504
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2020, 05:48:44 pm »
Never saw that before.  I really like the character of 940.  I have used S23 but never considered it close to the character of 940 but I should try it again.  Most 34/70 brewers I know say the flavor characteristics of it are very similar to 2124 and I thought Diamond was too.  2124 has been a favorite lager yeast of mine for a very long time and I love the aroma of a beer made with it.  Then again, I could say that about a number of others too.  Cheers BB.

I have info from the manufacturers that both 34/70 and Diamnond are related to 2124.
I like 34/70, never had a long lag time: pitch mid afternoon and always fermenting when I check the next morning. I used diamond lager yeast in a schwartz bier recently with good results.
I love to go swimmin'
with hairy old women

TXFlyGuy

  • Guest
Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2020, 05:50:58 pm »
Regarding flavor, so far we like the 34/70 as it is clean and crisp, in the profile of a good German Pils/Helles.