Author Topic: SafeLager W-34/70 Question  (Read 6356 times)

TXFlyGuy

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #75 on: March 27, 2020, 03:18:07 pm »


Short lag time aids in prevention of an off infection getting established.

My experience to date with 34/70 is with dry. But we will harvest some fresh yeast (34/70) from a recent brew next week. So that should behave more like what we have experienced in the past.

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #76 on: March 27, 2020, 03:57:07 pm »


Short lag time aids in prevention of an off infection getting established.

My experience to date with 34/70 is with dry. But we will harvest some fresh yeast (34/70) from a recent brew next week. So that should behave more like what we have experienced in the past.

If your sanitation is good, that's really not an issue. I mean, you wouldn't want to wait a week for it to start fermenting, but in practical terms 72 hours isn't really different from 2 hours.
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TXFlyGuy

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #77 on: March 27, 2020, 04:08:25 pm »


Short lag time aids in prevention of an off infection getting established.

My experience to date with 34/70 is with dry. But we will harvest some fresh yeast (34/70) from a recent brew next week. So that should behave more like what we have experienced in the past.

If your sanitation is good, that's really not an issue. I mean, you wouldn't want to wait a week for it to start fermenting, but in practical terms 72 hours isn't really different from 2 hours.

Yes, I agree. Our sanitation is like a hospital operating room, hyper-clean.
And our recent brew (36 hour lag) is just fine. In fact, it is very good, a Munich Helles.

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #78 on: March 28, 2020, 09:11:06 am »
Well, while I realize it’s anecdotal, all I know is I get faster starts, more vigorous fermentations, and faster complete finishes with nutrient. 

I found it is more advantageous to add it to the FV vs the kettle. I didn’t understand why but I’ve read the nutrients get bound in the trüb and I like to transfer clear wort from kettle to FV.
I just listened to a 15 Oct 19 Brew Strong episode on off flavors where they recommended adding Zinc. Something like, yeast need Zinc for a healthy fermentation.


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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #79 on: March 28, 2020, 10:23:49 am »
Well, while I realize it’s anecdotal, all I know is I get faster starts, more vigorous fermentations, and faster complete finishes with nutrient. 

I found it is more advantageous to add it to the FV vs the kettle. I didn’t understand why but I’ve read the nutrients get bound in the trüb and I like to transfer clear wort from kettle to FV.
I just listened to a 15 Oct 19 Brew Strong episode on off flavors where they recommended adding Zinc. Something like, yeast need Zinc for a healthy fermentation.


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When I looked the ingredients used in Wyeast's nutrient, zinc was #3 on the list.
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Offline denny

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #80 on: March 28, 2020, 10:26:47 am »
Well, while I realize it’s anecdotal, all I know is I get faster starts, more vigorous fermentations, and faster complete finishes with nutrient. 

I found it is more advantageous to add it to the FV vs the kettle. I didn’t understand why but I’ve read the nutrients get bound in the trüb and I like to transfer clear wort from kettle to FV.
I just listened to a 15 Oct 19 Brew Strong episode on off flavors where they recommended adding Zinc. Something like, yeast need Zinc for a healthy fermentation.


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When I looked the ingredients used in Wyeast's nutrient, zinc was #3 on the list.

Yep.  And over 20 years ago, when zinc in brewing was the rage, I spent 6 months or so experimenting with adding zinc.  I noticed no difference,  so I stopped doing it.
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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #81 on: March 28, 2020, 10:31:02 am »
That’s interesting because I can definitely tell a difference between when I do and don’t use nutrient. It’s night and day.


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Offline denny

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #82 on: March 28, 2020, 11:29:38 am »
That’s interesting because I can definitely tell a difference between when I do and don’t use nutrient. It’s night and day.


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I use nutrient in starters and in the kettle (when I remember).  Can't say that I can tell a difference but it doesn't hurt
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #83 on: March 28, 2020, 03:11:43 pm »
For RO brewers, yeast nutrient or zinc is an important addition since zinc is stripped out of RO water. If you're using a regular tap water, it may not have a zinc deficiency.

For those of you using a yeast nutrient or zinc supplement, use only the recommended amount since zinc has a very metallic taste. This is a case more "more is less".
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SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #84 on: March 28, 2020, 03:28:29 pm »
For RO brewers, yeast nutrient or zinc is an important addition since zinc is stripped out of RO water. If you're using a regular tap water, it may not have a zinc deficiency.

For those of you using a yeast nutrient or zinc supplement, use only the recommended amount since zinc has a very metallic taste. This is a case more "more is less".
Rgr that. I should have prefaced my comments with “I used Distilled water” (when the store has it). Maybe Denny’s well water is the variable.


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Offline denny

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2020, 08:41:01 am »
For RO brewers, yeast nutrient or zinc is an important addition since zinc is stripped out of RO water. If you're using a regular tap water, it may not have a zinc deficiency.

For those of you using a yeast nutrient or zinc supplement, use only the recommended amount since zinc has a very metallic taste. This is a case more "more is less".
Rgr that. I should have prefaced my comments with “I used Distilled water” (when the store has it). Maybe Denny’s well water is the variable.


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Good be.  I'm lucky to have very consistent, good quality water.
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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #86 on: March 30, 2020, 08:51:27 am »
Pitched W34/70 into 57*F, 1.057 Amber lager last night at 1730. This AM at 0730 I have a “blip” on the Tilt.  I just went down to look (~0930) and I have airlock activity.

This is routine around here. Long lags are a thing of the past.

Speaking of the past... If the past is any indication, it will be fully attenuated in 5-6 days. We’ll see.

As has been said before: I doubt there’s much difference in a beer that experienced a long lag and one that didn’t. I doubt anyone will ever receive a comment on a score sheet pointing out lag time. ....but if I can be drinking a nice lager two/three/four days sooner, I’m in.


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TXFlyGuy

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #87 on: March 30, 2020, 09:04:41 am »
Pitched W34/70 into 57*F, 1.057 Amber lager last night at 1730. This AM at 0730 I have a “blip” on the Tilt.  I just went down to look (~0930) and I have airlock activity.


Was this a package of dry yeast? One package or two?

We have pitched this yeast with 3 different brews, always followed the procedure published by Fermentis, and always experienced a minimum lag time of 36+ hours.

And we double pitch in quantity.

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #88 on: March 30, 2020, 09:08:18 am »
Pitched W34/70 into 57*F, 1.057 Amber lager last night at 1730. This AM at 0730 I have a “blip” on the Tilt.  I just went down to look (~0930) and I have airlock activity.


Was this a package of dry yeast? One package or two?

We have pitched this yeast with 3 different brews, always followed the procedure published by Fermentis, and always experienced a minimum lag time of 36+ hours.

And we double pitch in quantity.

Are you following current or past Fermentis guidelines?  AFAIK, what they have on their website is no longer what they recommend in person.  I also don't know now much difference it makes either way.
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Offline Northern_Brewer

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Re: SafeLager W-34/70 Question
« Reply #89 on: March 30, 2020, 09:37:03 am »
For those of you using a yeast nutrient or zinc supplement, use only the recommended amount since zinc has a very metallic taste. This is a case more "more is less".

More importantly, yeast (ale more than lager) can be quite sensitive to "high" zinc levels, particularly in the absence of manganese. See eg this work at Heriot-Watt funded by Suntory : https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1998.tb00996.x

Murphys  suggest :
"Densky et al. (1966) showed that worts contain from 0.05 - 0.10 ppm (mg/litre) Zn and noted growth stimulation if these worts were supplemented with Zn to a level of 0.5 ppm.

Frey et al (1967) found from 0.04 to 0.07 ppm of Zinc in worts and obtained stimulation of both fermentation and growth at 0.5 ppm. The study also showed that Zinc is not toxic to yeast at the 5 ppm level. (Yeast Technology, Reed & Peppler)

It can help reduce sulphury characteristics of beers by reacting with Hydrogen sulphide produced during the fermentation to precipi-tate insoluble Zinc sulphide....Rates can vary depending on the specific yeast strain used and the composition in the grist. Zinc will typically be added within a range of 0.045 to 0.11 grams per hectolitre of Zinc sulphate heptahydrate. (Equivalent to 0.1 to 0.25 mg/litre as Zn 2+)"