[majorvices]

Aside from the 70% AA which I agree is a little low, a lot of people subscribe to the idea that it's best to start these beers off "warm" and then lower them to fermentation temps. If you want "crispness, start your fermentation off at (or very near, or even a little below) your targeted fermentation temp. I don't recall from your original post but for dry yeast I would have pitched 2 packets for a 1.050ish lager at around 48 degrees after 2 minutes of pure o2.

Why the O2 with dry yeast, Keith?

yeah, you probably don't "need" o2 with dry yeast but I use it anyway just as insurance. The yeast will take up all the o2 so I don't feel it hurts any and may help.

[Iliff Ave]

This Helles is very close in the overall profile...just not as dry as I would have liked. But later today we will compare the Weihenstephaner Premium Pils in a sibe-by-side taste test. And we have some fresh Spaten too for further testing.

Helles is different than Pils

Yes, and that is why this is a Helles. The info online listed Weihenstephaner Original as a perfect Munich Helles. Also listed, Spaten, Paulaner, Ayinger, etc.

Sorry didn't realize Weihenstephaner Premium Pils is a helles. Seems weird to name a helles that...

[denny]

Aside from the 70% AA which I agree is a little low, a lot of people subscribe to the idea that it's best to start these beers off "warm" and then lower them to fermentation temps. If you want "crispness, start your fermentation off at (or very near, or even a little below) your targeted fermentation temp. I don't recall from your original post but for dry yeast I would have pitched 2 packets for a 1.050ish lager at around 48 degrees after 2 minutes of pure o2.

Why the O2 with dry yeast, Keith?

yeah, you probably don't "need" o2 with dry yeast but I use it anyway just as insurance. The yeast will take up all the o2 so I don't feel it hurts any and may help.

According to the manufacturers, there's no probably about it.  But you do you!   

[majorvices]

Aside from the 70% AA which I agree is a little low, a lot of people subscribe to the idea that it's best to start these beers off "warm" and then lower them to fermentation temps. If you want "crispness, start your fermentation off at (or very near, or even a little below) your targeted fermentation temp. I don't recall from your original post but for dry yeast I would have pitched 2 packets for a 1.050ish lager at around 48 degrees after 2 minutes of pure o2.

Why the O2 with dry yeast, Keith?

yeah, you probably don't "need" o2 with dry yeast but I use it anyway just as insurance. The yeast will take up all the o2 so I don't feel it hurts any and may help.

According to the manufacturers, there's no probably about it.  But you do you!   

Yeah, like now you decide to listen to them... but disregard their other recommendations like pitching temp and pitching rates ....

[TXFlyGuy]

Update:

Just did a side-by-side comparison of Bel Air Brewing Munich Helles & Weihenstephaner Original Premium.

They are nearly identical! But here are the differences...

Ours has a bit more "nose" character, both malt and yeast.
And, ours has a slightly more noticeable alcohol presence...very slight.
Color - ours is a half shade darker, barely noticeable.
Maybe these differences are from filtration, and pasteurization of the commercial example.

Here is where they are the same:

Head retention.
Lacing on the glass.
Mouth feel.
Basic flavor profile, being malt forward.
Hops very subdued.
Overall balance.
Clarity...you can read a newspaper thru it.

While ours has a hint of sweetness, it is balanced by a hint of hops, a very subdued hint.

Upon further review...we would not be embarrassed to enter this in any competition. And it will only improve with age!

[ynotbrusum]

Aside from the 70% AA which I agree is a little low, a lot of people subscribe to the idea that it's best to start these beers off "warm" and then lower them to fermentation temps. If you want "crispness, start your fermentation off at (or very near, or even a little below) your targeted fermentation temp. I don't recall from your original post but for dry yeast I would have pitched 2 packets for a 1.050ish lager at around 48 degrees after 2 minutes of pure o2.

Why the O2 with dry yeast, Keith?

yeah, you probably don't "need" o2 with dry yeast but I use it anyway just as insurance. The yeast will take up all the o2 so I don't feel it hurts any and may help.

According to the manufacturers, there's no probably about it.  But you do you!   

Yeah, like now you decide to listen to them... but disregard their other recommendations like pitching temp and pitching rates ....

.

Haha, we all choose what we want to emphasize, don’t we?  I was just wondering and I fully agree that you can add insurance wherever you feel comfortable adding it.  Cheers!

[BrewBama]

FWIW, I got very similar AA on my Citranot that I kegged tonight.  OG 1.058 to FG 1.014 in five days. BeerSmith predicted 1.013. Not bad.

I think the mfr uses a very specific grist bill, as well as mash and ferment schedule to get their documented AA claim.

I have 86% 2-row, 8% Vienna, 5% C40 and 1% Choc mashed at 152*F and fermented at an avg 59.3*F.

They also let the fermentation continue for a very long time. I stop the show when my Tilt hydrometer shows a consistent gravity. They go 2-3x longer. The gravity would continue to drop, albeit at a VERY slow rate, if I let it go.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TXFlyGuy]

FWIW, I got very similar AA on my Citranot that I kegged tonight.  OG 1.058 to FG 1.014 in five days. BeerSmith predicted 1.013. Not bad.

I think the mfr uses a very specific grist bill, as well as mash and ferment schedule to get their documented AA claim.

I have 86% 2-row, 8% Vienna, 5% C40 and 1% Choc mashed at 152*F and fermented at an avg 59.3*F.

They also let the fermentation continue for a very long time. I stop the show when my Tilt hydrometer shows a consistent gravity. They go 2-3x longer. The gravity would continue to drop albeit at a VERY slow rate if I let it go.

Our grain bill was 90% German Pils, 10% Vienna.
The beer spent a full 33 days in the FV, before kegging time. This does include about 7 days at 32 F.

At first, the flavor did not impress me. But after the comparison to Weihenstephaner Original Premium, we are quite happy with it.

[majorvices]

Aside from the 70% AA which I agree is a little low, a lot of people subscribe to the idea that it's best to start these beers off "warm" and then lower them to fermentation temps. If you want "crispness, start your fermentation off at (or very near, or even a little below) your targeted fermentation temp. I don't recall from your original post but for dry yeast I would have pitched 2 packets for a 1.050ish lager at around 48 degrees after 2 minutes of pure o2.

Why the O2 with dry yeast, Keith?

yeah, you probably don't "need" o2 with dry yeast but I use it anyway just as insurance. The yeast will take up all the o2 so I don't feel it hurts any and may help.

According to the manufacturers, there's no probably about it.  But you do you!   

Yeah, like now you decide to listen to them... but disregard their other recommendations like pitching temp and pitching rates ....

.

Haha, we all choose what we want to emphasize, don’t we?  I was just wondering and I fully agree that you can add insurance wherever you feel comfortable adding it.  Cheers!

IIRC Denny also doesn't rehydrate like the manufacturers instruction  . I have often times suggested dry yeast to new brewers because aeration isn't as crucial. But aerating is a hard habit to break I guess. At least for me...

[TXFlyGuy]

Aside from the 70% AA which I agree is a little low, a lot of people subscribe to the idea that it's best to start these beers off "warm" and then lower them to fermentation temps. If you want "crispness, start your fermentation off at (or very near, or even a little below) your targeted fermentation temp. I don't recall from your original post but for dry yeast I would have pitched 2 packets for a 1.050ish lager at around 48 degrees after 2 minutes of pure o2.

Why the O2 with dry yeast, Keith?

yeah, you probably don't "need" o2 with dry yeast but I use it anyway just as insurance. The yeast will take up all the o2 so I don't feel it hurts any and may help.

According to the manufacturers, there's no probably about it.  But you do you!   

Yeah, like now you decide to listen to them... but disregard their other recommendations like pitching temp and pitching rates ....

.

Haha, we all choose what we want to emphasize, don’t we?  I was just wondering and I fully agree that you can add insurance wherever you feel comfortable adding it.  Cheers!

IIRC Denny also doesn't rehydrate like the manufacturers instruction  . I have often times suggested dry yeast to new brewers because aeration isn't as crucial. But aerating is a hard habit to break I guess. At least for me...

We pitched exactly per their instructions. But we did aerate. And the result was a full 36 hour lag. Not sure if that impacted the beer or not.

[denny]

FWIW, I got very similar AA on my Citranot that I kegged tonight.  OG 1.058 to FG 1.014 in five days. BeerSmith predicted 1.013. Not bad.

I think the mfr uses a very specific grist bill, as well as mash and ferment schedule to get their documented AA claim.

I have 86% 2-row, 8% Vienna, 5% C40 and 1% Choc mashed at 152*F and fermented at an avg 59.3*F.

They also let the fermentation continue for a very long time. I stop the show when my Tilt hydrometer shows a consistent gravity. They go 2-3x longer. The gravity would continue to drop, albeit at a VERY slow rate, if I let it go.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Look up congress mash if you haven't already.

[denny]

Aside from the 70% AA which I agree is a little low, a lot of people subscribe to the idea that it's best to start these beers off "warm" and then lower them to fermentation temps. If you want "crispness, start your fermentation off at (or very near, or even a little below) your targeted fermentation temp. I don't recall from your original post but for dry yeast I would have pitched 2 packets for a 1.050ish lager at around 48 degrees after 2 minutes of pure o2.

Why the O2 with dry yeast, Keith?

yeah, you probably don't "need" o2 with dry yeast but I use it anyway just as insurance. The yeast will take up all the o2 so I don't feel it hurts any and may help.

According to the manufacturers, there's no probably about it.  But you do you!   

Yeah, like now you decide to listen to them... but disregard their other recommendations like pitching temp and pitching rates ....

.

Haha, we all choose what we want to emphasize, don’t we?  I was just wondering and I fully agree that you can add insurance wherever you feel comfortable adding it.  Cheers!

IIRC Denny also doesn't rehydrate like the manufacturers instruction  . I have often times suggested dry yeast to new brewers because aeration isn't as crucial. But aerating is a hard habit to break I guess. At least for me...

Manufacturers no longer recommend rehydrating

[BrewBama]

Look up congress mash if you haven't already.

I read a description a while back. I definitely wasn’t conforming.

For those interested: Congress Mash is a standardized small-scale mashing procedure employed to assess malt quality. The procedure is named for the standardized process instituted by the European Brewing Congress (EBC) in 1975.

Fifty-gram samples of malt are milled, either coarsely or finely, and then extracted with four volumes of water in a regime that involves progressive temperature-raising in order to mimic temperature-programmed or decoction mashing.

After filtration (the rate of which loosely approximates to projected lautering performance), the resulting wort (sometimes referred to as “congress wort”) can be tested in various ways.

Its specific gravity permits calculation of extract. The extract difference between the worts from the coarse and fine grinds is a measure of malt modification, better modified malts offering higher extract at the coarser setting and therefore a lower “fine-coarse difference.”

Other analyses made on the wort may include its odor, turbidity, “iodine normality” (time taken for the mash to lose its tendency to stain blue with iodine), pH, color (including after boiling), viscosity, soluble nitrogen content, free amino nitrogen, and final degree of attenuation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[majorvices]

Aside from the 70% AA which I agree is a little low, a lot of people subscribe to the idea that it's best to start these beers off "warm" and then lower them to fermentation temps. If you want "crispness, start your fermentation off at (or very near, or even a little below) your targeted fermentation temp. I don't recall from your original post but for dry yeast I would have pitched 2 packets for a 1.050ish lager at around 48 degrees after 2 minutes of pure o2.

Why the O2 with dry yeast, Keith?

yeah, you probably don't "need" o2 with dry yeast but I use it anyway just as insurance. The yeast will take up all the o2 so I don't feel it hurts any and may help.

According to the manufacturers, there's no probably about it.  But you do you!   

Yeah, like now you decide to listen to them... but disregard their other recommendations like pitching temp and pitching rates ....

.

Haha, we all choose what we want to emphasize, don’t we?  I was just wondering and I fully agree that you can add insurance wherever you feel comfortable adding it.  Cheers!

IIRC Denny also doesn't rehydrate like the manufacturers instruction  . I have often times suggested dry yeast to new brewers because aeration isn't as crucial. But aerating is a hard habit to break I guess. At least for me...

Manufacturers no longer recommend rehydrating

Fermentis website has instructions for rehydrating. They also recommend pitching dry as another scenario .... so not 100% true. Just sayin'.

[denny]

Aside from the 70% AA which I agree is a little low, a lot of people subscribe to the idea that it's best to start these beers off "warm" and then lower them to fermentation temps. If you want "crispness, start your fermentation off at (or very near, or even a little below) your targeted fermentation temp. I don't recall from your original post but for dry yeast I would have pitched 2 packets for a 1.050ish lager at around 48 degrees after 2 minutes of pure o2.

Why the O2 with dry yeast, Keith?

yeah, you probably don't "need" o2 with dry yeast but I use it anyway just as insurance. The yeast will take up all the o2 so I don't feel it hurts any and may help.

According to the manufacturers, there's no probably about it.  But you do you!   

Yeah, like now you decide to listen to them... but disregard their other recommendations like pitching temp and pitching rates ....

.

Haha, we all choose what we want to emphasize, don’t we?  I was just wondering and I fully agree that you can add insurance wherever you feel comfortable adding it.  Cheers!

IIRC Denny also doesn't rehydrate like the manufacturers instruction  . I have often times suggested dry yeast to new brewers because aeration isn't as crucial. But aerating is a hard habit to break I guess. At least for me...

Manufacturers no longer recommend rehydrating

Fermentis website has instructions for rehydrating. They also recommend pitching dry as another scenario .... so not 100% true. Just sayin'.

The website hasn't caught up.  If you go to one of their seminars, you get only dry pitching.