Author Topic: Multi-step mashing...  (Read 9898 times)

Big Monk

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2020, 05:54:06 pm »
If you’re looking for low S/T value, it appears Briess’ Pils and Goldpils Vienna malts would do:




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That’s not really all that low though.

Big Monk

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2020, 06:19:43 pm »
I think there are a few things that float around worth discussing specific to this thread:

1.) Is there such a thing as undermodified malt? I’m going to say no. When I said you would have to really look hard to find it, I think I was being charitable. I don’t think you can find a truly undermodified malt in the homebrew market.

2.) The idea that you should mash based on beer style, beer country, etc. is bunk. You mash malt, not style. Mash schedules are and should be tailored to the malt being used. By extension, you should try and familiarize yourself with the base malt you use. That’s actually easier said than done because for the most part, Weyermann is really one of the only maltsters out there who makes it easy to get data sheets.

3.) Should you step mash? Maybe, maybe not. I’ve always had a specific reason to do it. I brew mainly Trappist inspired ales. I also brew small batches. Why should anyone care about that? Mainly because it informs you about why step mashing benefits me. I want the maximum amount of highly attenuative wort I can get because my style I brew demands high attenuation and my small vessels often limit the amount of first wort I can get because I no sparge. I want to ensure through multiple beta rests and a long alpha rest that I get 100% conversion efficiency.

That’s just me. The big thing to take away is that step mashing is not a flavor component. Multiple rests can help with fermentability, extract, body, foam and overall wort quality. Do you need to do it? Absolutely not if you are happy with the product you get using single infusion. But if you start asking yourself questions that lead you down the road to step mashing, you should entertain that certain aspects of the wort you produce, and ultimately the final product you drink, could be enhanced by investigating the benefits of different mash regimens.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2020, 08:32:05 pm »
If you’re looking for low S/T value, it appears Briess’ Pils and Goldpils Vienna malts would do:




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That’s not really all that low though.
...”a ratio of 36 to 40 percent is a less-modified malt”...


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Big Monk

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2020, 08:48:47 pm »
If you’re looking for low S/T value, it appears Briess’ Pils and Goldpils Vienna malts would do:




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That’s not really all that low though.
...”a ratio of 36 to 40 percent is a less-modified malt”...


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Comparatively speaking. It’s less modified than highly modified but still highly modified.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2020, 08:55:09 pm »
If you’re looking for low S/T value, it appears Briess’ Pils and Goldpils Vienna malts would do:




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That Pilsen malt has a DP of 170! Get it damp at the right temperature and it will be converted.
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Big Monk

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2020, 08:59:03 pm »
If you’re looking for low S/T value, it appears Briess’ Pils and Goldpils Vienna malts would do:




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That Pilsen malt has a DP of 170! Get it damp at the right temperature and it will be converted.

Ding ding ding! Get that man a prize.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2020, 09:22:35 pm »
Huh. Here I was thinking we were talking about S/T ratio. Silly me.


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Big Monk

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2020, 09:45:55 pm »
Huh. Here I was thinking we were talking about S/T ratio. Silly me.


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We were. And we are. Just goofing around a little.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2020, 04:38:50 am »
And the time involved in those rest steps factors in here, as well, correct?  You mention finishing with a long alpha rest, but wit several beta rest steps, I assume that the overall mash takes longer than an hour, no?  With small volumes, perhaps it is quicker between steps than I experience with 5-10 gallon HERMS batches?
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Big Monk

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2020, 06:31:07 am »
And the time involved in those rest steps factors in here, as well, correct?  You mention finishing with a long alpha rest, but wit several beta rest steps, I assume that the overall mash takes longer than an hour, no?  With small volumes, perhaps it is quicker between steps than I experience with 5-10 gallon HERMS batches?

The Brauwelt mash I linked a page or so back has 3 Beta rests, each at 20 minutes (more on that below), a single Alpha rest at 30 minutes, and a pr0longed mashout of 10-15 minutes. You have to add ramp times as well, which will be system dependent, although the chart below assumes 1 °C/min:



So in total, if your system is capable of ramping at 1 °C/min, you can expect to mash for ~100 minutes. However, there is another very nice chart in the article:



You can see that due to the activity of Beta-Amylase being affected by the increasing temperatures, the % of activity decreases with increasing temperature. You can use the half lives at these temps to adjust the 20 minute Beta rests down accordingly. You may end up with something like this if interested, although i'd stress just using the longer times for Beta 1 and Beta 2 at least if you can:

Beta 1 = 20 min at 62 °C (144 °F)
Ramp  =   2 min
Beta 2 = 10 min at 64 °C (147 °F)
Ramp  =   3 min
Beta 3 =   5 min at 67 °C (153 °F)
Ramp  =   5 min
Alpha  = 30 min at 72 °C (162 °F)
Ramp  =   6 min
MO      = 10 min at 78 °C (172 °F)

Total Time = 91 minutes

Big Monk

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2020, 07:19:39 am »

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2020, 07:48:11 am »
Thanks to all.  I need to go back and look at these links and noodle with this a bit.  Cheers all around. 
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline HabeasCorpus

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2020, 07:53:00 am »
1.) Is there such a thing as undermodified malt? I’m going to say no. When I said you would have to really look hard to find it, I think I was being charitable. I don’t think you can find a truly undermodified malt in the homebrew market.

You'll find commercial malt advertised as under-modified but it's still "hot" with enough soluble protein to make a shake.

1.) Malt your own. (Yes it really does work and you can produce good malt and excellent - award winning beer by malting your own barley but it is another hobby all together with all kinds of neat things to discover and try, not to mention a whole different set of gadgets, plus I like run on sentences.)
2.) Use chit malt as your base.  Seriously it has enough diastatic power.  https://bestmalz.de/files/specs/Product_Specification_BEST_Chit_Malt_Bestmalz.pdf

Offline denny

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2020, 08:19:54 am »
I think the big takeaway from Derek's info that everyone needs to remember is "mash the malt not the country or style".  That's a lesson I learned and what I've always done since my first unsuccessful step mash.
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Offline HabeasCorpus

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Re: Multi-step mashing...
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2020, 08:29:27 am »
I think the big takeaway from Derek's info that everyone needs to remember is "mash the malt not the country or style".  That's a lesson I learned and what I've always done since my first unsuccessful step mash.

How does one mash a country or a style?  What train of thought goes into that?