Author Topic: Lost in Space  (Read 1520 times)

Offline Visor

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 674
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2020, 05:35:11 PM »
Or would I have to do all that fancy lager stuff.

34/70 is quite forgiving, people have been happy with the results of fermenting it up to 18C/65F or more. See this thread on HBT - but people there prefer Mangrove Jack M54 for its better flocculation.

You can fix flocculation just by adding a bit of a good floccer like Nottingham after 48h or so, S-33 or Windsor followed by Notty is a common combination.

Or you could try things like the new Lallemand dry Voss.

Thanks, looked at M54, 64 degrees minimum would be an issue.
I desire to use yeasts that match my basement environment.
For the most part the basement is 57-59 degrees year round.
I'm not allowed/willing to create a special environment for the yeast.

I've been spoiled with Nottingham yeast, it packs down well and
stays there during bottling.  Other yeasts when I get close to the bottom
stirs up into a cloud if I just look at it.

Thanks

   Don't believe that temp limitation, I've used it a bunch at cellar temps in the upper 50's without problems or overlong fermentation times. I haven't used it in a while as split fermentations comparing it to US-05 on the beers I used to use M-54 in convinced me that they all were tastier with 05. Both yeasts floc out well with fairly solid sediment, I do use gelatin and cold crash before bottling.
   IMO your list of requirements exactly defines US-05, if I was only allowed one yeast there is no question I'd choose 05, definitely the most versatile and bulletproof yeast I've ever used. Not much for producing yeast derived flavors though if that's what you want.
I spent most of my money on beer, tools and guns, the rest I foolishly squandered on stupid stuff!

Offline Fire Rooster

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2020, 06:58:56 PM »
Or would I have to do all that fancy lager stuff.

34/70 is quite forgiving, people have been happy with the results of fermenting it up to 18C/65F or more. See this thread on HBT - but people there prefer Mangrove Jack M54 for its better flocculation.

You can fix flocculation just by adding a bit of a good floccer like Nottingham after 48h or so, S-33 or Windsor followed by Notty is a common combination.

Or you could try things like the new Lallemand dry Voss.

Thanks, looked at M54, 64 degrees minimum would be an issue.
I desire to use yeasts that match my basement environment.
For the most part the basement is 57-59 degrees year round.
I'm not allowed/willing to create a special environment for the yeast.

I've been spoiled with Nottingham yeast, it packs down well and
stays there during bottling.  Other yeasts when I get close to the bottom
stirs up into a cloud if I just look at it.

Thanks

   Don't believe that temp limitation, I've used it a bunch at cellar temps in the upper 50's without problems or overlong fermentation times. I haven't used it in a while as split fermentations comparing it to US-05 on the beers I used to use M-54 in convinced me that they all were tastier with 05. Both yeasts floc out well with fairly solid sediment, I do use gelatin and cold crash before bottling.
   IMO your list of requirements exactly defines US-05, if I was only allowed one yeast there is no question I'd choose 05, definitely the most versatile and bulletproof yeast I've ever used. Not much for producing yeast derived flavors though if that's what you want.

Thanks, however-
I used US-05 for about my first 10 ? batches, due to it's raves.
Didn't care for how it flocculated into a swampy mess.
Reaching its 64 minimum ideal range was not possible with my cold basement.
I don't let yeasts go outside of their ideal range suggested by the manufacturer.

Thanks for the suggestion anyway.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 08:33:52 AM by Fire Rooster »

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 22879
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2020, 07:03:04 PM »
I also try not to let yeasts go outside of their ideal range suggested by the manufacturer.

Thanks for the suggestion anyway.

When Wyeast started producong 1450, I told them the temp range where I'd been successfully using it, and they raised it.  Trust your own experience.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4441
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2020, 08:35:01 PM »
Denny is right on.  Your experience is what matters.  My experience is that pretty much any yeast I've used will ferment well at lower temps than the "ideal" range on the packet, which is usually warmer than you want.  As long as you don't drop the temp while fermentation is going, the yeast should stay happy.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3742
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2020, 09:23:06 PM »
I like to stay within the mfr recommended temp range.

If the presentation by Fermentis at AHA brew con is any indication, they’ve done test batches and trained tasters distinguish which test beer starts to exhibit off flavors. Based on those trials they set a recommended temp range because they’ve demonstrated thru data where the lines should be drawn. I was impressed by the level of research they underwent to reach their recommendation.  I imagine each mfr runs similar trials.

Of course, we each have different taste preferences so the lines can be crossed by those of us who are more adventurous.  I am one that generally colors within the lines.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
“From man’s sweat and God’s love, beer came into the world.” — St. Arnold

Brewed in the Tennessee Valley. Rocket City — Huntsville AL

Offline Megary

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 328
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2020, 11:50:29 PM »
Recommended fermentation temperature...

So for US-05, Fermentis lists an ideal fermentation temperature of 64-82.  I hate to do it, but I assume this is a wort temperature and not an ambient/room temperature.  So at the beginning of fermentation while the yeast is working up a good lather, setting the fermenter in a what...58, 59, 60?...degree room should be perfectly fine.  I say this though I have never seen any studies saying exactly how much the yeast warms the wort while heading towards krausen.

I'm currently fermenting an American Wheat with US-05 that started at 61 ambient and was moved to 67 right after the krausen fell.

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4441
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2020, 12:56:48 AM »
Ambient or wort temp, it will ferment at 82 for sure.  Not ideal.

I've had wheat beers ferment in the 70s which is warmer than I'd like but they came out just fine.

That's my experience, but you gotta follow yours.  If you don't have enough personal data points, being conservative on ferment temps is advisable.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline Megary

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 328
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2020, 01:57:26 AM »
Ambient or wort temp, it will ferment at 82 for sure.  Not ideal.

I've had wheat beers ferment in the 70s which is warmer than I'd like but they came out just fine.

That's my experience, but you gotta follow yours.  If you don't have enough personal data points, being conservative on ferment temps is advisable.

Yeah, definitely. I have had better success with US-05 on the colder end. I was suggesting that Fire Rooster would be ok starting his fermentation with 05 in his cold basement and then moving it to room temperature once fermentation slows. Then again, maybe others would advise against starting off 05 at upper 50's ambient.

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3742
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2020, 02:22:32 AM »
I’ve read -05 can get ‘peachy’ if fermented too low.  Ester production can be a sign of stress.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
“From man’s sweat and God’s love, beer came into the world.” — St. Arnold

Brewed in the Tennessee Valley. Rocket City — Huntsville AL

Offline Fire Rooster

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2020, 08:35:44 AM »
Thanks for all the insight.

I'm relatively new to brewing (2+ years), and don't
desire to test the boundaries of the manufacturers ideal range.
I take it a step further ie, if its 50-60 degrees I target 55 to allow
for unforeseen swings in temp.  Too new to this hobby to be testing
the guard rails.

Moving a filled 5 gallon fermenter up a flight of stairs to be warmer
is not a safe option for me.

I'm fortunate to have a large poured concrete unfinished 1,700 sq ft spacious cold basement.
Depending on the yeast and time of year (some variations) determines if vessel is placed
on a shelf or floor.  If the floor is at 57 degrees the fermenter will not go above 59 degrees.
I stopped going to the basement with just my socks on regardless the time of year, knees
would hurt and become cold.

Thanks
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 09:17:40 AM by Fire Rooster »

Offline Fire Rooster

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2020, 09:35:10 AM »
Updated recipe, always wanted to use Bell's hops.

4.25 Gallon

94 % Weyermann German Vienna
6 % Great Western White Wheat

1 oz Bell's Centennial Pellet-Hops (40 min)
2 oz Citra Whole Cone-Hops (Flame-Out)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2020, 09:39:17 AM by Fire Rooster »

Offline Visor

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 674
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2020, 07:21:29 PM »
   Not to hijack the thread, but if your basement is consistently cold and you want to ferment warmer, or raise the temp at some point in the fermentation an easy, not overly expensive solution is an Inkbird controller with a small milkhouse heater all covered with a large cardboard box. Granted it's definitely a poor-boy WT looking thing, but it really does work quite well.
   I'll admit that my taste buds aren't anywhere near the most sensitive in the world, but I've never detected even a hint of peachy flavor from 05, regardless of fermentation temp, and I've used it cold a bunch, I prefer it to work below 60.
I spent most of my money on beer, tools and guns, the rest I foolishly squandered on stupid stuff!

Offline Fire Rooster

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2020, 04:47:14 PM »
   Not to hijack the thread, but if your basement is consistently cold and you want to ferment warmer, or raise the temp at some point in the fermentation an easy, not overly expensive solution is an Inkbird controller with a small milkhouse heater all covered with a large cardboard box. Granted it's definitely a poor-boy WT looking thing, but it really does work quite well.
   I'll admit that my taste buds aren't anywhere near the most sensitive in the world, but I've never detected even a hint of peachy flavor from 05, regardless of fermentation temp, and I've used it cold a bunch, I prefer it to work below 60.

fyi
http://brulosophy.com/2017/03/09/yeast-comparison-safale-us-05-vs-saflager-w-3470-exbeeriment-results/

Offline Fire Rooster

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2020, 04:52:40 PM »
Or would I have to do all that fancy lager stuff.

34/70 is quite forgiving, people have been happy with the results of fermenting it up to 18C/65F or more. See this thread on HBT - but people there prefer Mangrove Jack M54 for its better flocculation.

You can fix flocculation just by adding a bit of a good floccer like Nottingham after 48h or so, S-33 or Windsor followed by Notty is a common combination.

Or you could try things like the new Lallemand dry Voss.

Warmer for sure.
http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fermentation-temperature-pt-4-lager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/

Package for 34/70 lists a temp range of 48.2f to 71.6f, and ideal range of 53f to 59f.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 08:59:14 AM by Fire Rooster »

Offline Fire Rooster

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2020, 06:28:28 PM »
Would ONE packet of 34/70 be ok to pitch into 4.25 gallon wort ?

Thanks