Author Topic: Westvleteren 12  (Read 1313 times)

Offline russell

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Westvleteren 12
« on: April 21, 2020, 06:46:56 PM »
  I have been looking at recipe's for this beer and have come up with some that have lots of malts in the (most seem close to each other) and one with just 2 Malts and some candy syrup. Also there are a few threads on water profile and design.
   Have any of you experienced brewers ever tried this beer and been successful at getting it at least close?
 
A)   MANY GRAINS

13.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 74.71 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 5.53 %
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 2.77 %
0.33 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 1.83 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.38 %
0.19 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.05 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (90 min) Hops 24.7 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.40 %] (30 min)Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] (30 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
1.00 item Servomyces (10 min)
1.50 lb Dark Belgian Candi Syrup (80.0 SRM) Sugar 8.30 %
0.75 lb Amber Belgian Candi Syrup (40.0 SRM) Sugar 4.43 %
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale

B) WITH CANDY SYRUP

10 lb. Belgian Pilsner
5.5 lb. Belgian pale malt
2.5 lb. D-180 candy syrup.
1 oz. Brewers Gold (60)
1 oz. Hallertau Mittelfrueh (30)
1 oz. Styrian Goldings (15)
YEAST: WY3787/WLP530

« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 08:10:41 PM by russell »

Offline Big Monk

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2020, 06:51:37 PM »
  I have been looking at recipe's for this beer and have come up with some that have lots of malts in the (most seem close to each other) and one with just 2 Malts and some candy syrup. Also there are a few threads on water profile and design.
   Have any of you experienced brewers ever tried this beer and been successful at getting it at least close?
 
A)   MANY GRAINS

13.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 74.71 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 5.53 %
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 2.77 %
0.33 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 1.83 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.38 %
0.19 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.05 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (90 min) Hops 24.7 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.40 %] (30 min)Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] (30 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
1.00 item Servomyces (10 min)
1.50 lb Dark Belgian Candi Syrup (80.0 SRM) Sugar 8.30 %
0.75 lb Amber Belgian Candi Syrup (40.0 SRM) Sugar 4.43 %
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale

B) WITH CANDY SYRUP

10 lb. Belgian Pilsner
5.5 lb. Belgian pale malt
2.5 lb. D-180 candy syrup.

B). Without a doubt. Although I prefer WY3787. I just prefer Wyeast over White labs in general, but in my experience, 3787 is better than 530.
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Offline denny

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2020, 08:25:10 PM »
I agree with Derek.  B with 3787.  I don't know if you've ever had the beer, buyy if you have you'd know it couldn't be A.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2020, 08:34:22 PM »
“From man’s sweat and God’s love, beer came into the world.” — St. Arnold

Brewed in the Tennessee Valley. Rocket City — Huntsville AL

Offline Big Monk

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2020, 11:40:56 PM »
I agree with Derek.  B with 3787.  I don't know if you've ever had the beer, buyy if you have you'd know it couldn't be A.

If you’ve had St. Bernardus ABT 12, you know the wheelhouse. They contract brewed Westvleteren beers for 60 years or so, and kept brewing that beer under their own name. Not a dead nuts hit for Westy 12, but definitely closer than any other beer on the market.

I agree about the malt selection. I love malt heavy Dubbels and Dark Strongs and have brewed them many times but the Westvleteren/St. Bernardus type beers beg for just mixed base malt and sugars. No need to mess up a sure thing.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 11:42:56 PM by Big Monk »
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.“ Richard Feynman

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Offline denny

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2020, 02:08:43 PM »
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2020, 02:55:11 PM »
I’ve even seen a recipe with just one malt:

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/westvleteren_12_clone_-_single_malt_040.pdf

Which is the way it should be

Well, Stan's work in BLAM and most unofficial reports indicate a mix of pilsner and pale ale malts in the actual beers. Whether that works for Joe Homebrewer at home is subjective but mixed base malts is certainly a valid way forward for additional complexity without muddiness.
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.“ Richard Feynman

"Messieurs, c’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot." Louis Pasteur

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Offline Die Beerery

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2020, 03:14:07 PM »
I’ve even seen a recipe with just one malt:

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/westvleteren_12_clone_-_single_malt_040.pdf

Which is the way it should be

Thats quite the bold statement! I remember the kickback when I have seen folks say stuff like that in past.  ;)
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2020, 03:38:36 PM »
...mixed base malts is certainly a valid way forward for additional complexity without muddiness.




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Offline russell

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2020, 03:39:55 PM »
  So has anyone brewed this beer and which recipe did you try #1 or #2 or another one? How did it turn out?
    I did get a chance to try a bottle of Westvleteren 12 with a date of 21.11.21 on the cap. I got it for Judging at a competition (my first time). When the judging was finished they let you choose a number, my number was 12. I opened it at thanksgiving for all to sample, it get great reviews.
    Wish I had more bottles to keep around for that One very special occasion and some for just hording.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 03:42:55 PM by russell »

Offline BrewBama

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Westvleteren 12
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2020, 03:44:48 PM »
That’s a matter of debate.  No right or wrong.

Recommendation: Make each recipe one at time and see which one matches your expectations. ...or brew a combination of the three.  The one you like best is the one for you.


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« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 03:47:35 PM by BrewBama »
“From man’s sweat and God’s love, beer came into the world.” — St. Arnold

Brewed in the Tennessee Valley. Rocket City — Huntsville AL

Offline Big Monk

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2020, 04:06:05 PM »
  So has anyone brewed this beer and which recipe did you try #1 or #2 or another one? How did it turn out?
    I did get a chance to try a bottle of Westvleteren 12 with a date of 21.11.21 on the cap. I got it for Judging at a competition (my first time). When the judging was finished they let you choose a number, my number was 12. I opened it at thanksgiving for all to sample, it get great reviews.
    Wish I had more bottles to keep around for that One very special occasion and some for just hording.

Can I ask you a question: Have you ever worked with one of the Trappist yeasts before?

I've brewed with them many times with both temperature control and no temperature control and one of the things I've been thinking about lately is to recommend that those who are not familiar with them try an extract batch with them first, especially with a recipe that has a large portion of Candi Syrup anyway.

These beers are primarily yeast driven and if you get them to a point where you have a handle on how the yeast reacts, adding nuance and complexity from an all grain version is a logical leap and chances are you are all grain brewing anyway. You get a super simple extract beer in the fermenter and you can adjust your all grain version based on the yeast derived flavors from the extract batch.
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.“ Richard Feynman

"Messieurs, c’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot." Louis Pasteur

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Offline denny

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2020, 04:07:29 PM »
I’ve even seen a recipe with just one malt:

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/westvleteren_12_clone_-_single_malt_040.pdf

Which is the way it should be
.

Well, Stan's work in BLAM and most unofficial reports indicate a mix of pilsner and pale ale malts in the actual beers. Whether that works for Joe Homebrewer at home is subjective but mixed base malts is certainly a valid way forward for additional complexity without muddiness.


Yeah, I think the combo is the way to go
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline denny

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2020, 04:09:54 PM »
  So has anyone brewed this beer and which recipe did you try #1 or #2 or another one? How did it turn out?
    I did get a chance to try a bottle of Westvleteren 12 with a date of 21.11.21 on the cap. I got it for Judging at a competition (my first time). When the judging was finished they let you choose a number, my number was 12. I opened it at thanksgiving for all to sample, it get great reviews.
    Wish I had more bottles to keep around for that One very special occasion and some for just hording.

About a year ago I spent the day (yeah, pretty much the whole day) drinking Westy at In de Vrede.  Bought several cases, so it became my every day beer for a couple weeks while I was there.  It is not made with the complex recipe A.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline russell

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Re: Westvleteren 12
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2020, 10:14:18 PM »
  thank you everyone for your input. I have been brewing for 7 years now, have a controlled fermenter box and have a HERMS electric system am able to Decoct  also.  I am going to try out the 2nd version with a 3 gallon brew to start out. I have found some info on brewing this and will take your input along with others to try this one out, will brew it in a month or so.  Below Is some info I was looking at .
     https://finnhillbrewing.blogspot.com/2013/06/water-profiles-for-westvleteren-12.html
 and …..https://finnhillbrewing.blogspot.com/2013/03/designing-westvleteren-12-clone.html