[Andy Farke]

HERE's an article that sums it up pretty well.  He mentions the addition of gypsum but he doesn't say how much, what his water is like or any final water numbers so it might be nice to get a better handle on that.  I drew up a recipe with pilsner + vienna + munich + an addition of Horizon as a FWH and then Hallertau at 30 and again at 5 minutes (I do 30-minute boils so I can't do the 60-30-5).  The article did a nice job explaining where dortmunder fits in with helles, pilsner, maibock, etc.  Cheers.

Cool, thanks! I had run across that article too, and it seemed like the most in-depth out there.

Re: your other post, Great Lakes Dortmunder gold is indeed listed as having crystal 60 on their website. But, it's also a "classic" early 1990s recipe, so I suspect the grist might be a holdover from the Good Old Days when American breweries were doing a little bit of everything to approximate European beers. That doesn't mean it's a bad beer, of course, (I *love* their beers, and am in fact wearing a GLB t-shirt as I type this!), and crystal malt isn't a completely unreasonable substitution if you can't get Munich malt easily.

[Andy Farke]

Having a bit of minerality from the water is a feature of the style. There is a Dortmund water profile in Bru'n Water, but I can attest that it's too minerally for my palate. I'd say that roughly half the mineralization of that profile would be good enough. That is still somewhat minerally and notable.

Thanks for the thoughts on this! (and to the rest who chimed in re: water). The minerality of our water is a major part of why I'm trying my hand at a Dortmunder Export--it's one of the few pale lagers that seems to be easily adapted from my municipal water without getting RO into the mix! I'll see what I can do to play with the water a bit using the tools at hand to get it where I need to be...

[Village Taphouse]

Cool, thanks! I had run across that article too, and it seemed like the most in-depth out there.

Re: your other post, Great Lakes Dortmunder gold is indeed listed as having crystal 60 on their website. But, it's also a "classic" early 1990s recipe, so I suspect the grist might be a holdover from the Good Old Days when American breweries were doing a little bit of everything to approximate European beers. That doesn't mean it's a bad beer, of course, (I *love* their beers, and am in fact wearing a GLB t-shirt as I type this!), and crystal malt isn't a completely unreasonable substitution if you can't get Munich malt easily.

I agree with you completely.  Good beer is good beer.  I try very hard not to be a style-nazi but I assume that many brewers with a bit of style knowledge might look at a commercial beer that claims to be [something] but uses very nontraditional ingredients (for the style) might wince a little bit.  The beer can still be very nice but I wish they would sometimes just not use a term/style-name that is not really what they brewed.  The other part is that many beer-drinking people don't really know what a Kolsch is or an Altbier or a Kellerbier or whatever so it's weird to use those terms.  Years ago American craft breweries seemed to whiff mightily when they attempted German styles.  I think that's changing now.  I have had a number of delicious, spot-on German beers from small U.S. breweries which is a good sign.  Cheers.

[Andy Farke]

Update!

Thank you to everyone who chimed in previously. Your advice was really helpful as I crafted my recipe. I ended up at 70% pilsner, 15% Vienna, and 15% light Munich malt, with Magnum for bittering and Mt. Hood for flavor/aroma. The result was *spectacular*! I'm really pleased with my attempt, and find that it packs in a ton of malt character without being cloying or over-alcoholic.

For those who are curious, I have a full recounting at my blog: https://andybrews.com/2020/06/19/tremonia-lager/

[mabrungard]

Andy,

Reading your targeted water profile, I agree that you put the beer into a nice range that should have produced a notable minerality in the beer without being overbearing. What were your personal perceptions on that point?

[Andy Farke]

Reading your targeted water profile, I agree that you put the beer into a nice range that should have produced a notable minerality in the beer without being overbearing. What were your personal perceptions on that point?

My personal perceptions are that it all balances out pretty well...my lighter malt beers in the "old days" (when I didn't do any treatments) had a definite flabbiness to them, and this batch doesn't have that problem. I just sampled a little taster of the Dortmunder Export, and now that I'm looking for it there is a bit of minerality on this one (especially on the mid-point of the beer taste), but nothing over the top. I would say the whole package melds together pretty well for my (moderately unrefined) palate. The malt sings in this one, and I would suppose that's a combination of grist choice and because it's playing really well with the water.

[tommymorris]

Update!

Thank you to everyone who chimed in previously. Your advice was really helpful as I crafted my recipe. I ended up at 70% pilsner, 15% Vienna, and 15% light Munich malt, with Magnum for bittering and Mt. Hood for flavor/aroma. The result was *spectacular*! I'm really pleased with my attempt, and find that it packs in a ton of malt character without being cloying or over-alcoholic.

For those who are curious, I have a full recounting at my blog: https://andybrews.com/2020/06/19/tremonia-lager/

So, which is better your Last Chance Lager or this Tremonia Lager? They both look great.

[Andy Farke]

Update!

Thank you to everyone who chimed in previously. Your advice was really helpful as I crafted my recipe. I ended up at 70% pilsner, 15% Vienna, and 15% light Munich malt, with Magnum for bittering and Mt. Hood for flavor/aroma. The result was *spectacular*! I'm really pleased with my attempt, and find that it packs in a ton of malt character without being cloying or over-alcoholic.

For those who are curious, I have a full recounting at my blog: https://andybrews.com/2020/06/19/tremonia-lager/

So, which is better your Last Chance Lager or this Tremonia Lager? They both look great.

That's a great question...I wish I had them side-by-side to compare! Going by my notes, the original Tremonia Lager was probably a touch more to my preference. It had a little fuller malt character (perhaps a reflection of the base pilsner malt?), but that's more of a general recollection than anything.