[denny]

3. Be respectful of the questions and comments of others. It is OK to disagree with someone, but do so with respect. Keep the AHA forum friendly and encouraging of everyone's participation. We will not tolerate rudeness, insults, personal attacks, inflammatory remarks, threats, racial/ethnic slurs, trolling, flame baiting or similarly disruptive postings.

[BrewBama]

Sorry, I didn't have the time nor the crayons to explain it to you.


Here is an even more in depth look at said gas laws, that are on my blog. But hey, what do I know.

Bottle Cap ingress
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/bottle-cap-oxygen-ingress-real/

CO2 purity
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/carbon-dioxide-purity/

Purging
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/kegging-care-guide-purging-transferring-stabilizing-finished-beer/

Serving
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/beer-serving-oxygen-ingress/

Despite the tone, I learned something. Thx for posting the links.


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[dbeechum]

Despite the tone, I learned something. Thx for posting the links.

Yeah, but you know - tone matters a lot.

[pete b]

I am curious how temperature works to keep beer fresher longer and if it effects the pressure. It’s not like most foods that are refrigerated to slow microbe growth. Is it that the temperature effects the psi inside, outside, or both? Or is this not related.
A chance to answer a possibility dumb question respectfully.

[narvin]

Sorry, I didn't have the time nor the crayons to explain it to you.


Here is an even more in depth look at said gas laws, that are on my blog. But hey, what do I know.

Bottle Cap ingress
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/bottle-cap-oxygen-ingress-real/

CO2 purity
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/carbon-dioxide-purity/

Purging
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/kegging-care-guide-purging-transferring-stabilizing-finished-beer/

Serving
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/beer-serving-oxygen-ingress/

These are great links.  May I constructively suggest you present them sooner next time?   

The one on CO2 purity and spunding, and the links to the hach blog, were fascinating.  That was what convinced me to try spunding.  A bottle cap is going to have more oxygen permeability than a keg but as long as you're priming it you still are getting most of the benefits of natural carbonation.

[BrewBama]

Yeah, but you know - tone matters a lot.

True. That’s what turned off so many once the original low O2 paper burst upon the scene. Delivery.

These are great links.  May I constructively suggest you present them sooner next time?   

I agree. It might have actually saved time. ...as well as lowered the tone.

I am curious how temperature works to keep beer fresher longer ...

Dr Charlie Bamforth said the two most important things you can do for your beer is to reduce O2 intake and keep it cold post fermentation.  There are several podcasts where he described the issue. ...and he wrote a book on the subject.

Reader’s Digest: He says keeping beer cold reduces the impact of oxidation.

Three things that will help lock in brewery freshness: low oxygen levels, low temperatures and fast turnaround times from brewery to glass.




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[erockrph]

I am curious how temperature works to keep beer fresher longer and if it effects the pressure. It’s not like most foods that are refrigerated to slow microbe growth. Is it that the temperature effects the psi inside, outside, or both? Or is this not related.
A chance to answer a possibility dumb question respectfully.

Temperature affects the kinetic energy (i.e., speed of motion) of molecules. It plays a huge role in determining pressure. So it will affect the psi on both the inside and outside as you asked.

To describe the impact specific to cap ingress for the visually inclined, imagine that oxygen molecules are moving around like dudes in a giant mosh pit. Picture the cap seal being a fence between two mosh pits, with small gaps that someone could slip through if they hit it just right. On the mosh pit on the inside, there are only a few dudes. On the mosh pit on the outside there are a whole bunch of dudes. Over time, a lot more of the dudes from the outside are going to hit the gap in the fence just right and end up on the inside, than the dudes on the inside are going to end up on the outside. This is how we end up with a net O2 ingress through the cap and increasing the concentration in the beer.

Temperature sets the speed of the mosh. Fast temps are like a mosh pit at a Slayer show, slow temps are like a ballad. They'll still get through during a ballad due to the sheer numbers, but it won't happen as fast as during "Angel of Death".

The math gets more complicated if the temperature isn't the same on the inside and outside, but it's too early on a Sunday morning for that  The analogy would still hold, though. Think Slayer on one side of the fence and ballad on the other to get a visual.

[pete b]

The speed of molecules moving makes sense, thinking ice vs steam..
Nice mosh pit analogy Eric.

[KellerBrauer]

I am curious how temperature works to keep beer fresher longer and if it effects the pressure. It’s not like most foods that are refrigerated to slow microbe growth. Is it that the temperature effects the psi inside, outside, or both? Or is this not related.
A chance to answer a possibility dumb question respectfully.

Temperature affects the kinetic energy (i.e., speed of motion) of molecules. It plays a huge role in determining pressure. So it will affect the psi on both the inside and outside as you asked.

To describe the impact specific to cap ingress for the visually inclined, imagine that oxygen molecules are moving around like dudes in a giant mosh pit. Picture the cap seal being a fence between two mosh pits, with small gaps that someone could slip through if they hit it just right. On the mosh pit on the inside, there are only a few dudes. On the mosh pit on the outside there are a whole bunch of dudes. Over time, a lot more of the dudes from the outside are going to hit the gap in the fence just right and end up on the inside, than the dudes on the inside are going to end up on the outside. This is how we end up with a net O2 ingress through the cap and increasing the concentration in the beer.

Temperature sets the speed of the mosh. Fast temps are like a mosh pit at a Slayer show, slow temps are like a ballad. They'll still get through during a ballad due to the sheer numbers, but it won't happen as fast as during "Angel of Death".

The math gets more complicated if the temperature isn't the same on the inside and outside, but it's too early on a Sunday morning for that  The analogy would still hold, though. Think Slayer on one side of the fence and ballad on the other to get a visual.

Fantastic analogy! Thank you! 👍🏼

[Die Beerery]

You cats are funny.   I literally answered the question shortly,  succinctly and jovial, the first post.  Then I got backhanded comments.  So I use one and I’m the bad guy, but I get it.  It’s ya’lls echo chamber. 


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[BrewBama]

You cats are funny.   I literally answered the question shortly,  succinctly and jovial, the first post.  Then I got backhanded comments.  So I use one and I’m the bad guy, but I get it.  It’s ya’lls echo chamber. 


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The following is my personal opinion and is no reflection on the AHA, it’s parent organization, or it’s sponsors:

It’s hilarious you think this is an echo chamber. There is plenty of dissent here. You on the other hand operate the biggest brewing echo chamber I’ve ever seen. There are no dissenting opinions at your place and I even brought up the ‘group think’ of your site and was pounced on by your groupies. What a joke.

I figure that’s why you’ve been coming here again lately. No one will question you there so you have to come here for your daily ration of dissent.

Actually, I brought your ‘go find it yourself’ answers to questions to your attention in your own echo chamber as well.  After posting expletives (like F off), deleting it, posting a little less direct answer (like no one asked you to come here), deleting, and settling on a “that’s how it is here” answer, you finally told me to quit commenting because I was stating a position contrary to yours. I even brought it to your attention that I’m not the only one who feels that way. You didn’t seem to care.  It’s your world my friend. We’re all just living in it. So, I took your advise and left your echo chamber.

Like I said then: all folks want are simple answers to simple questions without having to wade thru volumes of scientific information the folks have to go find themselves.  ...just like you did above. It sucked when I brought it to your attention then and it still sucks.

Too bad, too. You’re a smart guy with a lot of helpful information. But like I’ve told you before: you need a PR guy.


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[Die Beerery]

You cats are funny.   I literally answered the question shortly,  succinctly and jovial, the first post.  Then I got backhanded comments.  So I use one and I’m the bad guy, but I get it.  It’s ya’lls echo chamber. 


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The following is my personal opinion and is no reflection on the AHA, it’s parent organization, or it’s sponsors:

It’s hilarious you think this is an echo chamber. There is plenty of dissent here. You on the other hand operate the biggest brewing echo chamber I’ve ever seen. There are no dissenting opinions at your place and I even brought up the ‘group think’ of your site and was pounced on by your groupies. What a joke.

I figure that’s why you’ve been coming here again lately. No one will question you there so you have to come here for your daily ration of dissent.

Actually, I brought your ‘go find it yourself’ answers to questions to your attention in your own echo chamber as well.  After posting expletives (like F off), deleting it, posting a little less direct answer (like no one asked you to come here), deleting, and settling on a “that’s how it is here” answer, you finally told me to quit commenting because I was stating a position contrary to yours. I even brought it to your attention that I’m not the only one who feels that way. You didn’t seem to care.  It’s your world my friend. We’re all just living in it. So, I took your advise and left your echo chamber.

Like I said then: all folks want are simple answers to simple questions without having to wade thru volumes of scientific information the folks have to go find themselves.  ...just like you did above. It sucked when I brought it to your attention then and it still sucks.

Too bad, too. You’re a smart guy with a lot of helpful information. But like I’ve told you before: you need a PR guy.


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Sounds like you got some things to work though, as I have no idea what you are talking about.   I hope you figure it all out. 


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[erockrph]

You cats are funny.   I literally answered the question shortly,  succinctly and jovial, the first post.  Then I got backhanded comments.  So I use one and I’m the bad guy, but I get it.  It’s ya’lls echo chamber. 


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You sir, need to look into how not to be a dick on the internet... PSYCHOLOGY!!! </jovial>

LMGTFY:

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+not+be+a+dick+on+the+internet&oq=how+to+not+be+a+dick+on+the+internet&aqs=chrome..69i57.14059j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

But seriously, if you're autistic and are incapable of understanding the basics of social interaction, I apologize.

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[Slowbrew]

A three page, meant to be helpful, rant reduced down to this...

I know people are getting bored and stir crazy but let's keep this social and friendly.  We can disagree and still get along. 

Paul

[Die Beerery]

You cats are funny.   I literally answered the question shortly,  succinctly and jovial, the first post.  Then I got backhanded comments.  So I use one and I’m the bad guy, but I get it.  It’s ya’lls echo chamber. 


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You sir, need to look into how not to be a dick on the internet... PSYCHOLOGY!!! </jovial>

LMGTFY:

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+not+be+a+dick+on+the+internet&oq=how+to+not+be+a+dick+on+the+internet&aqs=chrome..69i57.14059j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

But seriously, if you're autistic and are incapable of understanding the basics of social interaction, I apologize.

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So in turn you be a D on the internet?  Sounds like what a person in a confirmation biased echo chamber would say!
Dats what I'm talking bout, dawg.

Anyways I'm over it, it is what it is, lets move on. Must be the 'rona.