Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: Adding to a yeast starter (Kveik into IPA)  (Read 1214 times)

Offline SmokeyHopsHomeBrew

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Adding to a yeast starter (Kveik into IPA)
« on: May 24, 2020, 02:36:23 pm »
I apologize in advance if this has been covered.  I've searched and not really found what I was looking for.  Probably simple question.

I have a yeast starter going for my IPA brew day tomorrow.  Did the ½ cup dry malt extract into 410 ml water with just a bit of yeast nutrient.  Done this multiple times, works well.  Fermentation is going, but probably past its peak.  (Pitched starter from liquid Omega pack yesterday).

This time though, I want to boost the yeast cell population by adding to the starter. 

My question is the initial active fermentation be complete prior to adding additional 410 ml of 1.040 wort.  Also, do I have time to squeeze that in at this point if I'm brewing tomorrow morning?  I realize I may not get an answer before I need to make my decision, but any input will still be useful for the next time :)

Thanks!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 11:17:03 pm by SmokeyHopsHomeBrew »

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6074
Re: Adding to a yeast starter
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2020, 04:31:53 pm »
Many have abandoned the traditional start for a Shaken not Stirred starter:

Vitality Starter

 author S. cerevisiae

All one needs to make a well-shaken starter is a sanitizable vessel that is at least four times the volume of the starter being prepared, a sanitizable screw-on cap for the vessel, and a funnel.  I do not know if anything comparable is available in the UK; however, one U.S.-gallon glass jugs (demijohns in UK speak) are plentiful in the United States.   Home brew supply stores sell plastic replacement caps for these jugs that can be sanitized (38mm polyseal screw top caps).  If one has money to burn, a 5L borosilicate glass media bottle like I currently use is a very nice toy.  However, 5L media bottles can cost prohibitive when purchased new.  I acquired my current 5L media bottle as unused laboratory surplus, and it was not cheap.  I used a 1-gallon glass jug for a very long time before switching over to using a 5L media bottle.

Preparing the starter medium (a.k.a. starter wort)

The starter medium is prepared like one would prepare a starter any other way.  A 10% weight/volume solution is made by mixing 100 grams of pale DME into a little more than 1L of water.  The goal here is to end up with 1L of media after the solution has been boiled and cooled to room temperature.  I boil the solution for 15 minutes in a 3-quart stainless steel sauce pan (A U.S. quart is slightly smaller than a liter).  The media is chilled in the sauce pan with the cover affixed using an ice water bath in my kitchen sink. 

Sanitizing the starter vessel, screw-on cap, and funnel

The starter vessel, screw-on cap, and funnel should be sanitized while the medium is boiling and chilling. While I use bleach and StarSan, feel free to use your preferred sanitizer.  It is critical that the funnel is sanitized as well, and that one does not touch the inside surface of the funnel after it has been sanitized.

Note: One thing that I like to teach home brewers is to get into the habit of wiping the lip over which yeast or nutrient will be poured with an alcohol saturated cotton ball before decanting yeast, medium, or supernatant (supernatant is the clear liquid that lies above the solids in a starter, yeast crop, or a batch of beer).  Wild microflora (yeast, mold, and bacteria) rides through the air on house dust.  What we want to do is ensure that we do not drag any dust that may have come to rest on the pouring lip of the container that we are decanting into a vessel in which we intend to grow a culture or ferment a batch of beer.  This precaution makes sense If one thinks about what a nurse or doctor does before giving one an injection.  The reason why a doctor or a nurse cleans an injection site with an alcohol wipe before giving one an injection is to prevent the needle from dragging microflora that is on one’s skin into the injection site.

Pouring the starter medium

After placing the funnel in the starter vessel, one should wipe the pouring lip of the sauce pan in with an alcohol saturated cotton ball before pouring the starter medium into the starter vessel.  I use 70% or 90% isopropyl alcohol.  I used to use 95% ethanol (a.k.a. grain alcohol).  However, my state outlawed its sale due to teenagers and young adults abusing it.  Any 140 proof or better clear spirit will work.  Please do not use methylated spirits. 


Inoculating the starter medium

If using a White Labs vial, wipe the pouring lip of the vial with an alcohol saturated cotton ball before pouring the yeast culture into the starter vessel.   If using a Wyeast smack pack, wipe the outside of the smack and the blades of the pair of scissors that one is using to cut a corner off of the smack pack with an alcohol saturated cotton ball before making the cut, and wipe the cut edge of the smack pack with an alcohol saturated cotton ball before pouring the contents of the smack pack into the starter vessel.


Caping and shaking

Here’s where my method differs from the way the average home brewer makes a starter.  The reason why a vessel with a screw-on cap is necessary with this method is because one is going to shake the culture very vigorously for about a minute.  I usually tell brewers to shake the starter vessel like it owes you money (think mafia enforcer).  The goal here is to attempt to turn the media into foam. That's why the vessel has to be at least four times the volume of the starter.  One should then allow the starter to sit for around thirty minutes before loosening the cap to allow the foam to drop.

A well-shaken starter in a 5L media bottle



Pitching the starter

Pitching is one area where most home brewers get it completely wrong.  A starter is not a small batch of beer.  It is a yeast biomass growth medium.  The goal here is to grow the culture to maximum cell density and then pitch it.  Maximum cell density occurs at high krausen.  Beyond that point, all cell reproduction is for replacement only. Yeast taken at high krausen is much healthier than yeast that is taken from a sedimented starter or batch of beer.  That’s why traditional breweries crop yeast at high krausen.  Allowing a starter to ferment out and settle places the cells in the yeast equivalent of hibernation where they will have to undo survival-related morphological changes that occurred at the end of fermentation as well as completely replenish their ergosterol and unsaturated fatty acid reserves after being pitched. 

High krausen should occur within 12 to 18 hours after pitching the starter.  The yeast biomass grows exponentially, not linearly.  The yeast cell count grows at a rate of 2^n, where the symbol “^” means raised to the power of, and n equals the number of minutes that have elapsed since the end of the lag phase divided by 90; hence, the difference in propagation time between 200B cells and 400B cells can be as little as 90 minutes.


British Versus American Pitching Rates

If one believes the yeast calculators found on American sites, one will end up growing 2 to 3 liter starters for 23L batches.  Frankly, the guys who wrote this code know more about coding than they do about yeast.  No two yeast cultures behave the same when pitched, and no two yeast cultures require the same pitching rate.   The only thing that will teach one the proper pitch rate for any given strain is experience with the strain in one’s brew house.  Additionally, it is often desirable to underpitch in order to achieve a desired flavor profile.  British styles benefit from underpitching.  I often pitch as little as 60B cells into 19L of wort when fermenting normal gravity beer (i.e., < 1.065).   Wyeast 1768, which is allegedly Young’s stain, performs much better when pitched at a rate of 3B cells per liter than at a rate of 10B cells per liter when fermenting normal gravity ale.  It produces what I like to refer to as the British lollipop ester when the beer is young.   This strain produces a .delightfully fruity and malty pint when used with a grist that is composed mostly of British pale malt.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline SmokeyHopsHomeBrew

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Adding to a yeast starter
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2020, 04:55:25 pm »
Wow, thank you BrewBama for all of the information! 

Looks very similar to the Palmer described method in How To Brew (about 120 g DME to ½ Liter water/media), with the exception of the volume of water/media used being double.  I use a 2 Liter growler and cap it to shake it then replace the cap with an airlock for ferm.  Star San is my go to sanitizer.

Interesting regarding the under pitching, I've heard that but I have not done a purposeful under pitch batch yet.   

One thing I keep forgetting is to try and find a clear vessel, as my growler is dark glass so I can't see what's inside all that well.  Just going by experience!

Thanks again for the info, much appreciated.

-J

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27129
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Adding to a yeast starter
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2020, 08:26:58 am »
Wow, thank you BrewBama for all of the information! 

Looks very similar to the Palmer described method in How To Brew (about 120 g DME to ½ Liter water/media), with the exception of the volume of water/media used being double.  I use a 2 Liter growler and cap it to shake it then replace the cap with an airlock for ferm.  Star San is my go to sanitizer.

Interesting regarding the under pitching, I've heard that but I have not done a purposeful under pitch batch yet.   

One thing I keep forgetting is to try and find a clear vessel, as my growler is dark glass so I can't see what's inside all that well.  Just going by experience!

Thanks again for the info, much appreciated.

-J

According to Mark, the guy who wrote what Brewbama quoted, it's very important that the starter vessel is 4x the size of the starter wort.  Also, foil over the top is the vessel works at least as well as an airlock.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline joe_meadmaker

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
Re: Adding to a yeast starter
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2020, 11:46:15 am »
I still use a stir plate, but basically follow the schedule that is given for the SNS starter.  I usually make a starter the night before brewing and put it on the stir plate.  The next day when it's time to pitch, take it off the stir plate and pitch the entire thing.  I've used the SNS method and think it's a great option.  But I have three stir plates and figure I might as well use them.

Offline SmokeyHopsHomeBrew

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Adding to a yeast starter
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2020, 11:58:00 am »
Thanks for the input. 

Sounds like I'm right in line using a 2 L vessel then, as my wort contribution was just under 500 mL.

I decided to not to build up my starter past the initial 500 mL.  Pitched the starter directly into an IPA after 48 hours of activity.  Starter was still slightly active at pitch, but very much past the peak Ferm. I'm using the OYL-091 from Omega, and I read a few places it's not a bad idea to under pitch when using a Kveik.
First time using a Kveik.  I'm fermenting at 74 F and I've seen a 20 point reduction in gravity over the course of 4 full days of visual fermentation activity in the airlock.  Does not seem vigorous, but it has been steady.  Curious if this is typical of Kveik as I have read both that it is often highly active and quick, and also that it can be slower.  I assume if I am close to the 70 F minimum of it's temp range, this is why it is perhaps a bit more slow and steady.  Thinking of raising temp slowly over the course of the next few days to get closer to 78-80 F.  Thoughts?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 11:59:52 am by SmokeyHopsHomeBrew »