Author Topic: Do you treat rinse water with Campden?  (Read 436 times)

Offline Lazy Ant Brewing

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Do you treat rinse water with Campden?
« on: May 31, 2020, 09:36:22 PM »
In an effort to limit oxygen pickup, I plan  to fill my clean and sanitized keg with water and then blow that out before transferring beer from the fermenter.  My water is treated with different types of chlorine compounds depending upon what the utility decides to use in a given month, but it always tastes okay out of the faucet.  I do treat it with a campden tablet before mashing with it, but I wondered if I should treat the water I add to the keg to expel air and then blow out?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

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Offline BrewBama

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Do you treat rinse water with Campden?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2020, 11:00:34 PM »
I figure since I am pushing sanitizer out with CO2 leaving no sanitizer or O2 in the keg, there’s no need to treat the water I use for mixing my sanitizer with because that water won’t be in contact with beer.

Likewise, I believe you are describing pushing all the water out, so I figure the similarities would apply: there’s no water left in the keg, and the keg is filled with CO2.

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« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 02:25:28 AM by BrewBama »
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Offline goose

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Re: Do you treat rinse water with Campden?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2020, 01:30:28 PM »
I do what Brewbama does, fill the keg with sanitizer and push it out with CO2.

I do not pour the sanitizer into the keg as I have a Rubbermaid cooler that I use to store my Saniclean and I syphon it from the cooler into the keg through the "beer out" keg plug to avoid any splashing that would lead to O2 pickup.  I then purge the head space in the keg, if there is any, with CO2 during the sanitizing cycle.  This keeps the entire system closed to outside air.

That said, there will always some O2 that is dissolved in the sanitizer, no matter how careful you are, because that is just the nature of the beast.  But I can minimize the O2 as much as physically possible in the keg with this procedure.
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Offline Lazy Ant Brewing

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Re: Do you treat rinse water with Campden?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2020, 02:26:22 PM »
I do what Brewbama does, fill the keg with sanitizer and push it out with CO2.

I do not pour the sanitizer into the keg as I have a Rubbermaid cooler that I use to store my Saniclean and I syphon it from the cooler into the keg through the "beer out" keg plug to avoid any splashing that would lead to O2 pickup.  I then purge the head space in the keg, if there is any, with CO2 during the sanitizing cycle.  This keeps the entire system closed to outside air.

That said, there will always some O2 that is dissolved in the sanitizer, no matter how careful you are, because that is just the nature of the beast.  But I can minimize the O2 as much as physically possible in the keg with this procedure.

How do you syphon through the keg out post?  Do you remove the post and run a thin tube down it? Could I just skip the step of blowing water out of the keg and just blow a star san solution out and then add the beer from the fermenter? Thanks for your help.
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Offline BrewBama

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Do you treat rinse water with Campden?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2020, 02:31:28 PM »
FWIW, this is how I purge a keg and closed transfer beer into it:

To reduce O2 intake at packaging:

1. Fill the keg with no foam sanitizer as much as possible and install the lid.  Top off completely by using a bottling bucket with a spigot. Run the hose from the spigot to the out post using a black beer disconnect. Ensure the keg is tilted so the gas in post is the highest point. Attach a spare grey gas QD. Open the spigot on the bottling bucket until sanitizer comes out the gas QD. The keg is now full of sanitizer.
2. Use the same hose you filled the keg with but close the spigot, detach it from the bottling bucket spigot, and place the loose end in the bottling bucket. Pressurize the keg with 2-3 psi from a CO2 tank.  Leave the QD attached to the gas in post to push out the sanitizer. Install the black beer QD. Once CO2 begins to bubble in the now full bucket of sanitizer disconnect the black QD. Disconnect the gas in QD from the keg.
3. Turn the keg upside down — this is important— by turning it towards the gas in post with the gas in post at the lowest point (slightly tilted).  Any remaining liquid should be puddled at the gas in port. Using a spare gas in grey QD, install the QD to allow residual sanitizer to escape. (Shortened gas in dip tube helps with getting all the residual out)  When all the liquid is drained quickly pull off the QD. Do not allow all the CO2 to escape.  You just purged your keg with CO2.
4. Using the same hose you used to fill and drain the keg, attach the black QD onto the liquid out post and while gas is escaping quickly attach it to the spigot of your fermenter. Tighten hose clamp. You just purged the line with CO2.
5. Attach a hose to the spare grey QD and install it on the gas in post of your purged keg. As CO2 is escaping attach it to the top of your fermenter. You just purged the line with CO2 and created a pretty darn close oxygen free closed loop.
6. Open drain on the fermenter, have a beer. Wait until beer comes out the gas in line. You might have to burp the line at the top of the FV to get things moving. I like to lay my keg on its side with the gas in post high for this. Once the FV has completely drained or beer comes out the gas in post, you now have a full keg of beer that displaced the CO2 in the keg by pushing it into the fermenter.  Remove the gas in QD then the beer out QD.
7. Once full, with keg upright and level, apply a small amount of CO2 pressure to the keg and install a tap. Drain a bit of beer until you no longer hear CO2 bubbling in beer (~ a pint or so). You just created CO2 filled headspace.


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« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 02:58:56 PM by BrewBama »
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Offline Lazy Ant Brewing

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Re: Do you treat rinse water with Campden?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2020, 03:13:52 PM »
I do what Brewbama does, fill the keg with sanitizer and push it out with CO2.

I do not pour the sanitizer into the keg as I have a Rubbermaid cooler that I use to store my Saniclean and I syphon it from the cooler into the keg through the "beer out" keg plug to avoid any splashing that would lead to O2 pickup.  I then purge the head space in the keg, if there is any, with CO2 during the sanitizing cycle.  This keeps the entire system closed to outside air.

That said, there will always some O2 that is dissolved in the sanitizer, no matter how careful you are, because that is just the nature of the beast.  But I can minimize the O2 as much as physically possible in the keg with this procedure.

How do you syphon through the keg out post?  Do you remove the post and run a thin tube down it? Could I just skip the step of blowing water out of the keg and just blow a star san solution out and then add the beer from the fermenter? Thanks for your help.
FWIW, this is how I purge a keg and closed transfer beer into it:

To reduce O2 intake at packaging:

1. Fill the keg with no foam sanitizer as much as possible and install the lid.  Top off completely by using a bottling bucket with a spigot. Run the hose from the spigot to the out post using a black beer disconnect. Ensure the keg is tilted so the gas in post is the highest point. Attach a spare grey gas QD. Open the spigot on the bottling bucket until sanitizer comes out the gas QD. The keg is now full of sanitizer.
2. Use the same hose you filled the keg with but close the spigot, detach it from the bottling bucket spigot, and place the loose end in the bottling bucket. Pressurize the keg with 2-3 psi from a CO2 tank.  Leave the QD attached to the gas in post to push out the sanitizer. Install the black beer QD. Once CO2 begins to bubble in the now full bucket of sanitizer disconnect the black QD. Disconnect the gas in QD from the keg.
3. Turn the keg upside down — this is important— by turning it towards the gas in post with the gas in post at the lowest point (slightly tilted).  Any remaining liquid should be puddled at the gas in port. Using a spare gas in grey QD, install the QD to allow residual sanitizer to escape. (Shortened gas in dip tube helps with getting all the residual out)  When all the liquid is drained quickly pull off the QD. Do not allow all the CO2 to escape.  You just purged your keg with CO2.
4. Using the same hose you used to fill and drain the keg, attach the black QD onto the liquid out post and while gas is escaping quickly attach it to the spigot of your fermenter. Tighten hose clamp. You just purged the line with CO2.
5. Attach a hose to the spare grey QD and install it on the gas in post of your purged keg. As CO2 is escaping attach it to the top of your fermenter. You just purged the line with CO2 and created a pretty darn close oxygen free closed loop.
6. Open drain on the fermenter, have a beer. Wait until beer comes out the gas in line. You might have to burp the line at the top of the FV to get things moving. I like to lay my keg on its side with the gas in post high for this. Once the FV has completely drained or beer comes out the gas in post, you now have a full keg of beer that displaced the CO2 in the keg by pushing it into the fermenter.  Remove the gas in QD then the beer out QD.
7. Once full, with keg upright and level, apply a small amount of CO2 pressure to the keg and install a tap. Drain a bit of beer until you no longer hear CO2 bubbling in beer (~ a pint or so). You just created CO2 filled headspace.


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So, if you attach a black disconnect to one end of a line and just slip the other end over the nipple on the bottom of a bottling bucket valve and then connect to the beer out post, gravity will be enough to allow you to fill the keg from the bottling bucket?  I didn't know that.  Thanks
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Offline BrewBama

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Do you treat rinse water with Campden?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2020, 04:50:04 PM »
Yes.  As long as the bucket is higher than the keg and you have a gas QD attached or the PRV pulled to let the air out, it will fill.


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« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 04:52:36 PM by BrewBama »
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