Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: High alcohol dry yeast options  (Read 3521 times)

Offline beerphilmcd

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
  • Enzymatic activity excites me!
High alcohol dry yeast options
« on: June 21, 2020, 11:04:30 pm »
I’m sure some are familiar with the attached dry yeast spreadsheet. I noticed the wide general difference between Fermentis and Lallemand listed alcohol tolerances with Fermentis showing substantially lower numbers across the board.

I’m planning a 14+ abv beer to store which I’m calling 10 Year Ale. Just a challenge to push me. I’ve got the process covered, making a small beer the week before to build yeast, oxygen, etc. I would love input on yeast options. Super high gravity from white labs is the easy choice. Anyone have experience with dry yeast like bry97 in a 15% beer? Diamond lager and Nottingham are listed as being good to 14%. I’d never push Notty to that extent!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1Y8e2PPEbT8eTy-jeGxKfmUsls5qQIpZHHRb3EjYPNXU/htmlview
"Perhaps wisdom for me is understanding how truely small I am, and that there is no smug self centered moment of clarity when there is so much more to learn" Anthony Bourdain

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4882
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2020, 05:02:46 am »
I don’t have specs, but S-189 is the yeast from Hurliman, supposedly the Swiss yeast used in Samiclaus.  It’s a lager yeast, but some have used it a bit warmer with success.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline Descardeci

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2020, 06:21:16 am »
I’m sure some are familiar with the attached dry yeast spreadsheet. I noticed the wide general difference between Fermentis and Lallemand listed alcohol tolerances with Fermentis showing substantially lower numbers across the board.

I’m planning a 14+ abv beer to store which I’m calling 10 Year Ale. Just a challenge to push me. I’ve got the process covered, making a small beer the week before to build yeast, oxygen, etc. I would love input on yeast options. Super high gravity from white labs is the easy choice. Anyone have experience with dry yeast like bry97 in a 15% beer? Diamond lager and Nottingham are listed as being good to 14%. I’d never push Notty to that extent!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1Y8e2PPEbT8eTy-jeGxKfmUsls5qQIpZHHRb3EjYPNXU/htmlview

I would go with fermentis new yeast SafBrewTM HA-18, they say can go to 18%, but I never push pass the 10%, not with this yeast of course, but with the BE-256 from fermentis, I stopped after that with high alchool beers

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27093
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2020, 08:09:58 am »
Just because a yeast is listed for a certain ABV or temp range doesn't mean that it won't work in different ranges.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline beerphilmcd

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
  • Enzymatic activity excites me!
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2020, 11:00:10 am »
Thanks Denny, Descardeci, & ynotbrusum. Curious if anyone has experience with 12+% beers with diamond or bry97?
"Perhaps wisdom for me is understanding how truely small I am, and that there is no smug self centered moment of clarity when there is so much more to learn" Anthony Bourdain

Offline Iliff Ave

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4507
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2020, 12:17:48 pm »
Thanks Denny, Descardeci, & ynotbrusum. Curious if anyone has experience with 12+% beers with diamond or bry97?

It shows to have an alcohol tolerance of 13% ABV
On Tap/Bottled: IPL, Adjunct Vienna, Golden Stout, Honey Lager
Fermenting: IPA
Up Next: mexi lager, Germerican pale ale

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4696
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2020, 03:28:51 pm »
I haven't had a chance to brew with BRY-97 (or homebrew in general for that matter) but I've brewed >15% beers with US-05, Nottingham, and S-04.
Sent from my Microsoft Bob

Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
Refractometer Calculator | Batch Sparging Calculator | Two Mile Brewing Co.

Offline allenhuerta

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2020, 08:02:14 pm »
Just because a yeast is listed for a certain ABV or temp range doesn't mean that it won't work in different ranges.
Yeah, I can't remember where I heard it.. might have been Denny & Drew tbh... Or maybe it was Marshall Schott... But they said the yeast can't read the instructions on the outside of the package. They can't read, and they are inside the package. So telling them they can't ferment outside of the listed OG/FG/ABV tolerance is ridiculous.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6050
High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2020, 07:04:47 am »
I can’t imagine the manufacturer would put on the label the recommended fermentation temp and ABV range simply because yeast can’t read. What would be the advantage to limiting the usage spectrum of their product?  Less sales?  That’s ridiculous.

No, the ranges are listed because adverse reactions occur outside those ranges as determined by tasting panels and test batches.

Sure, a degree or three or an ABV percent here or there isn’t going to be as detrimental because nature doesn’t work that way. It’s not an on/off switch. It’s a gradual detriment to the finished product. I don’t know but it could even be exponential — the further you stray from mfr recommended ranges the more pronounced the adverse effect.

You might get away with success using products outside the mfr’s recommendation but then again you might not. My batches are running ~$40 or so a batch so I think I’ll color between the lines to attempt to have a better chance at success.  If I need a different range I’ll choose a different product suited for that range.

Don’t drink bleach simply because someone in authority tells you it’s OK.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 07:08:10 am by BrewBama »

Offline erockrph

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7788
  • Chepachet, RI
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2020, 07:05:36 am »
If you're looking for a clean ale yeast,  I'd recommend US-05 over BRY97 because it tends to attenuate a bit more. In a really big beer your challenge isn't so much the alcohol tolerance of the yeast, but making sure your FG gets low enough so the beer isn't sweet.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline allenhuerta

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2020, 07:16:44 am »
Many companies for many products list safe ranges for use based on trial and testing, but it doesn't mean they won't work outside those ranges. Sure, maybe don't use a yeast designed for low abv beers on an imperial stout but if your yeast is rated for 14% and it hits 17%, the yeast was just doing it's job in the environment that you provided. They won't quit just because they are like, WE HIT THE MAX LIMIT! They will finish when they are done. To a determent? Probably not.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6050
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2020, 07:31:29 am »
Many companies for many products list safe ranges for use based on trial and testing, but it doesn't mean they won't work outside those ranges. Sure, maybe don't use a yeast designed for low abv beers on an imperial stout but if your yeast is rated for 14% and it hits 17%, the yeast was just doing it's job in the environment that you provided. They won't quit just because they are like, WE HIT THE MAX LIMIT! They will finish when they are done. To a determent? Probably not.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
Completely agree


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27093
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2020, 09:02:05 am »
I can’t imagine the manufacturer would put on the label the recommended fermentation temp and ABV range simply because yeast can’t read. What would be the advantage to limiting the usage spectrum of their product?  Less sales?  That’s ridiculous.

No, the ranges are listed because adverse reactions occur outside those ranges as determined by tasting panels and test batches.

Sure, a degree or three or an ABV percent here or there isn’t going to be as detrimental because nature doesn’t work that way. It’s not an on/off switch. It’s a gradual detriment to the finished product. I don’t know but it could even be exponential — the further you stray from mfr recommended ranges the more pronounced the adverse effect.

You might get away with success using products outside the mfr’s recommendation but then again you might not. My batches are running ~$40 or so a batch so I think I’ll color between the lines to attempt to have a better chance at success.  If I need a different range I’ll choose a different product suited for that range.

Don’t drink bleach simply because someone in authority tells you it’s OK.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You seem to be assuming that the manufacturers test these things.  I can assure you that's often not the case.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27093
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2020, 09:02:51 am »
If you're looking for a clean ale yeast,  I'd recommend US-05 over BRY97 because it tends to attenuate a bit more. In a really big beer your challenge isn't so much the alcohol tolerance of the yeast, but making sure your FG gets low enough so the beer isn't sweet.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Personally I don't find 05 nearly as clean as BRY97
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6050
Re: High alcohol dry yeast options
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2020, 10:11:05 am »

Personally I don't find 05 nearly as clean as BRY97

+1


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk