[HerrodsBrew]

Hey guys, I just brewed a beer yesterday recipe is as follows.

Grains: 11 lbs Viking 2-row malts 1 Lb dingemans biscuit
Hops: 4 oz centennial (60-30-5-0) 4 oz chinook ( dry hop 1 week in)
Mash at 155 degrees for 60mins (Used 6 gallons)
Boil for 60 mins
Cooled to 80 degrees
Pitched yeast starter (2l water + 1.5 cups DME OG 1.045, WLP1001)

So the issue I’m having is that my original gravity turned out to be 1.040 to low I was shooting for 1.060-1.065. I don’t know what happened. I have created a K-RIMS (kettle recirculating infusion mash system) so I use the ful amount of water (10 gallons) and have it recirculating over a heat element to maintain mash temp at 155. It works surprisingly well, mash temp stayed the same the whole time but didn’t convert enough.... the setup is as follows; I do BIAB there is 6 gallons in the kettle with the grain that gets pumped out to another kettle with the heat element that has 4 gallons and then from that kettle the wort is gravity fed on top of the grain through a sparge. Why wouldn’t this convert the sugars as well? I’m open to advice and if you need a video I have one for visual folks.

[tommymorris]

Hey guys, I just brewed a beer yesterday recipe is as follows.

Grains: 11 lbs Viking 2-row malts 1 Lb dingemans biscuit
Hops: 4 oz centennial (60-30-5-0) 4 oz chinook ( dry hop 1 week in)
Mash at 155 degrees for 60mins (Used 6 gallons)
Boil for 60 mins
Cooled to 80 degrees
Pitched yeast starter (2l water + 1.5 cups DME OG 1.045, WLP1001)

So the issue I’m having is that my final gravity turned out to be 1.040 to low I was shooting for 1.060-1.065. I don’t know what happened. I have created a K-RIMS (kettle recirculating infusion mash system) so I use the ful amount of water (10 gallons) and have it recirculating over a heat element to maintain mash temp at 155. It works surprisingly well, mash temp stayed the same the whole time but didn’t convert enough.... the setup is as follows; I do BIAB there is 6 gallons in the kettle with the grain that gets pumped out to another kettle with the heat element that has 4 gallons and then from that kettle the wort is gravity fed on top of the grain through a sparge. Why wouldn’t this convert the sugars as well? I’m open to advice and if you need a video I have one for visual folks.

Are you experienced with the same grain at the same crush one a different system? What were the results on the other system? Most importantly is that your normal crush and you usually get higher extraction?

How much wort did you end up with? I may not be following correctly but it seems you started with 10 gallons of water. Did you get down to your intended volume after boil? Having too much volume after boil can lead to low OG also.

[HerrodsBrew]

I have to apologize, I meant my original gravity, which I think you deciphered here, thank you.

I have never used this grain before I picked it solely because it was a base malt and 2-row and I picked dingemans because I like that it would add more maltiness to the flavor. I like trying new things and this project was a way for me to try this new K-RIMS systemi just setup.

I started out 10 gallons, 6 gallons with the grains at all times and 4 gallons in the HLT with the heat element that had a continuous sparge onto the grains at 155 degrees. I ended up with 8 gallons at a pre boil gravity of 1.030. So im thinking something went amiss in the mash process. Maybe I didn't do it for a long enough time? Idk At first I thought those grains just don't produce a high enzyme conversion to sugar rate so I calculated my efficiency and came up with 68% efficient, so that's not it.

[dmtaylor]

Most likely it's the crush.  Who milled your grains?  Do you have your own mill?

[Saccharomyces]

It definitely sounds like a crush issue. I personally do not care for the term “conversion efficiency” because a) it appears to be a Brad Smith made up term (Brad, I have you in my sights ) and b) it is incorrect. Conversion relates to how much starch we were able to convert to sugar via a process know as the hydrolysis of starch. However, our gravity is not dependent on conversion efficiency. It is dependent on our extraction efficiency (a.k.a., our brewhouse efficiency, thank you Brad for muddying the waters once again) because we can extract unconverted starch from the mash, which is why it is good to perform an iodine test.

That being said, extraction efficiency is based on the amount of starch and sugar we can extract from our grist and that is dependent on how well we were able to liberate the endosperm from the husk, which is dependent on crush. If you are not crushing your malt with your own mill, I would perform the credit card test on the mill being used to crush grain. If a credit card passes through the rollers with ease the gap is too wide. Most LHBS mills fail this test because they are worn or gapped for maximum throughput with minimum wear.

[BrewBama]

It definitely sounds like a crush issue. I personally do not care for the term “conversion efficiency” because a) it appears to be a Brad Smith made up term (Brad, I have you in my sights ) and b) it is incorrect.

I think you’re gonna have to let Dr Smith off the hook this time. I think Kai has this one:

“conversion and lauter efficiency

The brewhouse efficiency can be broken into two separate efficiencies that measure the performance of mashing and lautering separately:

brewhouse efficiency = conversion efficiency * lauter efficiency

Conversion efficiency measures how well the mash extracted the grist (malt and mash tun adjuncts). The benchmark is the fine grind extract that was determined in the laboratory. If all of that is extracted, the mash efficiency is 100%. Conversion efficiency is affected my mash parameters like pH, crush, diastatic power, temperature profile, mash type and mash time and should be close to 100%.

Lauter efficiency measures how well the lautering process transferred the extract, made soluble by mashing, into the boil kettle. It is affected by the design of the lauter system, type of lautering (no sparge, batch sparge or fly sparge) and sparging practice. The parameters that affect lauter efficiency for batch sparging have been discussed in Batch Sparging Analysis.”

Also, the CC trick doesn’t always work. It is system and process dependent. For example: I had to open the gap on my mill to be able to lauter thru the fine mesh bag I use as a filter.

[denny]

It definitely sounds like a crush issue. I personally do not care for the term “conversion efficiency” because a) it appears to be a Brad Smith made up term (Brad, I have you in my sights ) and b) it is incorrect. Conversion relates to how much starch we were able to convert to sugar via a process know as the hydrolysis of starch. However, our gravity is not dependent on conversion efficiency. It is dependent on our extraction efficiency (a.k.a., our brewhouse efficiency, thank you Brad for muddying the waters once again) because we can extract unconverted starch from the mash, which is why it is good to perform an iodine test.

That being said, extraction efficiency is based on the amount of starch and sugar we can extract from our grist and that is dependent on how well we were able to liberate the endosperm from the husk, which is dependent on crush. If you are not crushing your malt with your own mill, I would perform the credit card test on the mill being used to crush grain. If a credit card passes through the rollers with ease the gap is too wide. Most LHBS mills fail this test because they are worn or gapped for maximum throughput with minimum wear.

No, Brad had nothing to do with it.  It came from Kai Troester.  And gravity is as dependent on conversion efficiency as it is on any other figure.  It's the first step in the process.  And screw that credit card test....crush is personal and what works for one may not work for another.

[Big Monk]

I tend to use conversion efficiency and extraction efficiency interchangeably, even though I’m aware it’s not correct. I typically breakdown things down in my personal sheets by using extraction efficiency and mash efficiency.

I personally am more concerned with extraction efficiency than my brewhouse efficiency. I think people sometimes set their batch parameters around brewhouse without realize the implications of extraction and lautering upstream of the fermenter.

With that said, look to the crush first, mechanical recirculation second, and mash regimen third for issues with extraction.

(EDIT: Of course, the bolder section above represents the holy trinity of sorts for the subject of mashing. Different combinations of the three of those factors can yield the same results, as mashing is a bit more complex than typically discussed. Ultimately, it’s about knowing a desired end results and which combinations of “levers” to pull to achieve them.)

[Richard]

You should also verify that your mash pH is in the range (5.2 - 5.6) preferred by the enzymes. Otherwise they cannot do a good job of converting your starches into sugars.