Author Topic: Denny's Favorite 50  (Read 1975 times)

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25508
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2020, 08:33:40 am »
I believe cl-50 is North Coast Brewing Company’s House yeast and their beers are world class.
That's the supposition.  Only one person knows for certain and she isn't saying.
Actually, lots of people know that their beers are world class! My son lived in Fort Bragg for a few years and we always enjoyed visiting him and having a flight at the North Coast taproom.

Sorry to be unclear..yes, they make great beers.  But I was referring to the heritage of1450.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1136
  • Deus ex machina
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2020, 03:59:12 pm »
Sorry to be unclear..yes, they make great beers.  But I was referring to the heritage of1450.

While Maribeth Raines and Jeff Mellem are the only people who know for certain, there is a lot of evidence that points to BrewTek CL-50 being North Coast's yeast strain.  First, let's look at the culture's original description.

CL-50   California Pub Brewery Ale

   For that classic U.S. small brewery flavor. CL-50 produces terrific
   American red & pale ale styles. While attenuation is normal, this
   yeast produces a big, soft, well rounded malt flavor that really lets
   caramel malt flavors shine.

   Category:  Ale
   Flocculation:  Normal
   Attenuation:  74--76%
   Temperature Range:  60--70 F

North Coast started as a pub brewery.  Their first hit was Red Seal Ale (red ale was very popular in the 90s).  The culture is definitely not a BRY-96 derivative. It behaves nothing like BRY-96 and has a different sensory profile.  North Coast was founded by Mark Ruedrich, Tom Allen and Doug Moody.  In my dealings with U.C. Davis while collecting cultures from their collection, it was made clear to me that Mark Ruedrich acquired North Coast's culture from their collection. However, they would never give me the accession number.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 04:19:29 pm by Saccharomyces »

Offline dannyjed

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1407
  • Toledo, OH
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2020, 04:03:09 pm »
Sorry to be unclear..yes, they make great beers.  But I was referring to the heritage of1450.

While Maribeth Raines and Jeff Mellem are the only people who know for certain, the is a lot of evidence that points to BrewTek CL-50.  First, let's look at the culture's original description.

CL-50   California Pub Brewery Ale

   For that classic U.S. small brewery flavor. CL-50 produces terrific
   American red & pale ale styles. While attenuation is normal, this
   yeast produces a big, soft, well rounded malt flavor that really lets
   caramel malt flavors shine.

   Category:  Ale
   Flocculation:  Normal
   Attenuation:  74--76%
   Temperature Range:  60--70 F

North Coast started as pub brewery.  Their first hit was Red Seal Ale (red ale was very popular in the 90s as beer drinkers were venturing out from the lagers produced by the megas).  The culture is definitely not a BRY-96 derivative. It behaves nothing like BRY-96 and has a different sensory profile.  North Coast was founded by Mark Ruedrich, Tom Allen and Doug Moody.  In my dealings with U.C. Davis while collecting cultures from their collection, it was made clear to me that Mark Ruedrich acquired North Coast's culture from their collection. However, they would never give me the accession number.
That description fits my personal experience with WY 1450 almost exactly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dan Chisholm

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25508
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2020, 08:44:49 am »
Sorry to be unclear..yes, they make great beers.  But I was referring to the heritage of1450.

While Maribeth Raines and Jeff Mellem are the only people who know for certain, the is a lot of evidence that points to BrewTek CL-50.  First, let's look at the culture's original description.

CL-50   California Pub Brewery Ale

   For that classic U.S. small brewery flavor. CL-50 produces terrific
   American red & pale ale styles. While attenuation is normal, this
   yeast produces a big, soft, well rounded malt flavor that really lets
   caramel malt flavors shine.

   Category:  Ale
   Flocculation:  Normal
   Attenuation:  74--76%
   Temperature Range:  60--70 F

North Coast started as pub brewery.  Their first hit was Red Seal Ale (red ale was very popular in the 90s as beer drinkers were venturing out from the lagers produced by the megas).  The culture is definitely not a BRY-96 derivative. It behaves nothing like BRY-96 and has a different sensory profile.  North Coast was founded by Mark Ruedrich, Tom Allen and Doug Moody.  In my dealings with U.C. Davis while collecting cultures from their collection, it was made clear to me that Mark Ruedrich acquired North Coast's culture from their collection. However, they would never give me the accession number.
That description fits my personal experience with WY 1450 almost exactly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mine also to a degree....I can get higher attenuation and run it at lower temps than what they list
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1136
  • Deus ex machina
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2020, 04:42:33 pm »
Mine also to a degree....I can get higher attenuation and run it at lower temps than what they list

Cultures drift over time, but those parameters are provided to give most brewers an idea of what they can expect.  Brewhouse parameters will always dictate how a culture behaves.

Offline Kel

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2020, 11:47:00 pm »
I have it on the spin plate now ready for a brew this weekend. Only used it a few times up to this point but have been pleased with the results. Did see some comments on other sites that it could be a bit problematic, think in terms of flocculation, not experienced any of that personally.

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1136
  • Deus ex machina
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2020, 09:20:04 pm »
I have it on the spin plate now ready for a brew this weekend.

I can see another stir plate that will go up for sale in a couple of months. :) The stir plate myth is difficult to kill. However, stir plates will eventually go away like secondary fermenters. A stir plate is the wrong tool for the job.

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4418
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2020, 04:59:44 am »
What’s the word?  Quiscience?  I just think asleep, or dormant versus vibrant and full of vitality.  I haven’t pulled out my stir plate in years.  Thanks, again, Mark.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline Kel

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2020, 01:38:21 pm »
I have it on the spin plate now ready for a brew this weekend.

I can see another stir plate that will go up for sale in a couple of months. :) The stir plate myth is difficult to kill. However, stir plates will eventually go away like secondary fermenters. A stir plate is the wrong tool for the job.

Myth, really? I’ve not seen anything (admittedly I’ve not gone looking) that questions it’s effectiveness. This is new to me.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25508
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2020, 02:14:01 pm »
I have it on the spin plate now ready for a brew this weekend.

I can see another stir plate that will go up for sale in a couple of months. :) The stir plate myth is difficult to kill. However, stir plates will eventually go away like secondary fermenters. A stir plate is the wrong tool for the job.

Myth, really? I’ve not seen anything (admittedly I’ve not gone looking) that questions it’s effectiveness. This is new to me.

I believe the myth is that it's the best (or only) tool for the job. Or that you must have one to make a starter.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Kel

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2020, 03:00:56 pm »
I have it on the spin plate now ready for a brew this weekend.

I can see another stir plate that will go up for sale in a couple of months. :) The stir plate myth is difficult to kill. However, stir plates will eventually go away like secondary fermenters. A stir plate is the wrong tool for the job.

Myth, really? I’ve not seen anything (admittedly I’ve not gone looking) that questions it’s effectiveness. This is new to me.

I believe the myth is that it's the best (or only) tool for the job. Or that you must have one to make a starter.

Ah got you, that makes sense.

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1136
  • Deus ex machina
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2020, 03:11:28 pm »
Myth, really? I’ve not seen anything (admittedly I’ve not gone looking) that questions it’s effectiveness. This is new to me.

That is because most amateur brewers are drinking the stir plate Kool-Aid without knowing anything about yeast propagation.  The spinning bar places shear stress on the cells.  However, the real crime is allowing the starter to ferment out, so that the supernatant (the liquid above the yeast sediment) can be discarded.  The reason the supernatant has to be discarded in a stirred culture is because it is foul.  That odor and taste is the result of shear stress.  Allowing a culture to ferment out wastes ergosterol and unsaturated fatty acid reserves, resulting in less healthy cell walls, which, in turn, lengthens lag time and increases O2 requirements.

I am in the process of writing a new blog entry on the stir plate myth.  Stir plates were not designed for cell culture.  They became the gold standard in amatuer brewing out of ignorance, not knowledge, just like secondary fermentation.  This information is not new to people who been following this forum for the last six or so years.  I presented my "Shaken, not Stirred" method about that long ago. My method greatly reduces cost and simplifies making a starter.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 03:44:43 pm by Saccharomyces »

Offline Kel

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2020, 10:42:51 pm »
Myth, really? I’ve not seen anything (admittedly I’ve not gone looking) that questions it’s effectiveness. This is new to me.

That is because most amateur brewers are drinking the stir plate Kool-Aid without knowing anything about yeast propagation.  The spinning bar places shear stress on the cells.  However, the real crime is allowing the starter to ferment out, so that the supernatant (the liquid above the yeast sediment) can be discarded.  The reason the supernatant has to be discarded in a stirred culture is because it is foul.  That odor and taste is the result of shear stress.  Allowing a culture to ferment out wastes ergosterol and unsaturated fatty acid reserves, resulting in less healthy cell walls, which, in turn, lengthens lag time and increases O2 requirements.

I am in the process of writing a new blog entry on the stir plate myth.  Stir plates were not designed for cell culture.  They became the gold standard in amatuer brewing out of ignorance, not knowledge, just like secondary fermentation.  This information is not new to people who been following this forum for the last six or so years.  I presented my "Shaken, not Stirred" method about that long ago. My method greatly reduces cost and simplifies making a starter.

I have only just joined the forum but this is interesting news. I probably fall into your bracket of most amateur brewers also, I spin 24 hours, rest 24 hours and the chill in fridge overnight to decant. As you say, I think the supernatant can taste cidery, certainly not pleasant so I get rid of it. I have got blowoff tube activity in hours following this approach however so up to this point haven’t seen a reason to change.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25508
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2020, 08:58:00 am »
Myth, really? I’ve not seen anything (admittedly I’ve not gone looking) that questions it’s effectiveness. This is new to me.

That is because most amateur brewers are drinking the stir plate Kool-Aid without knowing anything about yeast propagation.  The spinning bar places shear stress on the cells.  However, the real crime is allowing the starter to ferment out, so that the supernatant (the liquid above the yeast sediment) can be discarded.  The reason the supernatant has to be discarded in a stirred culture is because it is foul.  That odor and taste is the result of shear stress.  Allowing a culture to ferment out wastes ergosterol and unsaturated fatty acid reserves, resulting in less healthy cell walls, which, in turn, lengthens lag time and increases O2 requirements.

I am in the process of writing a new blog entry on the stir plate myth.  Stir plates were not designed for cell culture.  They became the gold standard in amatuer brewing out of ignorance, not knowledge, just like secondary fermentation.  This information is not new to people who been following this forum for the last six or so years.  I presented my "Shaken, not Stirred" method about that long ago. My method greatly reduces cost and simplifies making a starter.

I have only just joined the forum but this is interesting news. I probably fall into your bracket of most amateur brewers also, I spin 24 hours, rest 24 hours and the chill in fridge overnight to decant. As you say, I think the supernatant can taste cidery, certainly not pleasant so I get rid of it. I have got blowoff tube activity in hours following this approach however so up to this point haven’t seen a reason to change.

I did it that way for many years.  Then I tried Mark's method.  Now I don't even know where my stir plate is, it's been so long since I've used it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Kel

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Denny's Favorite 50
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2020, 11:12:38 am »
Myth, really? I’ve not seen anything (admittedly I’ve not gone looking) that questions it’s effectiveness. This is new to me.

That is because most amateur brewers are drinking the stir plate Kool-Aid without knowing anything about yeast propagation.  The spinning bar places shear stress on the cells.  However, the real crime is allowing the starter to ferment out, so that the supernatant (the liquid above the yeast sediment) can be discarded.  The reason the supernatant has to be discarded in a stirred culture is because it is foul.  That odor and taste is the result of shear stress.  Allowing a culture to ferment out wastes ergosterol and unsaturated fatty acid reserves, resulting in less healthy cell walls, which, in turn, lengthens lag time and increases O2 requirements.

I am in the process of writing a new blog entry on the stir plate myth.  Stir plates were not designed for cell culture.  They became the gold standard in amatuer brewing out of ignorance, not knowledge, just like secondary fermentation.  This information is not new to people who been following this forum for the last six or so years.  I presented my "Shaken, not Stirred" method about that long ago. My method greatly reduces cost and simplifies making a starter.

I have only just joined the forum but this is interesting news. I probably fall into your bracket of most amateur brewers also, I spin 24 hours, rest 24 hours and the chill in fridge overnight to decant. As you say, I think the supernatant can taste cidery, certainly not pleasant so I get rid of it. I have got blowoff tube activity in hours following this approach however so up to this point haven’t seen a reason to change.

I did it that way for many years.  Then I tried Mark's method.  Now I don't even know where my stir plate is, it's been so long since I've used it.

I will have search on this technique and give it a test, many thanks.