Author Topic: Fest Bier  (Read 1510 times)

Offline Ellismr

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2020, 12:02:01 PM »
I’ve been working on my first beer recipe and the final version is
88% pills
9% light Munich
3% victory

Hops: hallertauer & tettnang


Yeast W34/70


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Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2020, 01:16:55 PM »
I just tasted a one ounce sample of my 3 week old, still fermenting, Fest Bier.

Made with 14 lbs Pils, 4 lbs Vienna, 4 lbs Munich. This is far better than my previous efforts, with a 1/3 split for each of these.

Much cleaner, a little less malty, and the hops really shine! Might even enter this in the upcoming Blue Bonnet Festival.

Hat-Tip to The Village Taphouse for the heads up on this recipe variation.
So it’s 4/4/4 lbs or 14/4/4 lbs pils, vienna, munich?

14 lbs Pils
4 lbs Vienna
4 lbs Munich

For 10 gallons.
Now On Tap:
1. Fest Bier
2. Oktoberfest
3. London Porter
4. Winter Lager (Sam Adams)
5. Oktoberfest (Sam Adams)

Offline Cliffs

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2020, 03:41:02 AM »
I've heard a rumor that some maltsters vienna malt is just a blend of Pils and Munich, has anyone else heard this?

Offline fredthecat

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2020, 04:01:00 AM »
no, and i find it really hard to believe. the vienna ive had, had had a consistent colour. munich and pils would be visually noticeable

Offline BrewBama

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Fest Bier
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2020, 04:08:13 AM »
I haven’t read about Pils blends but I have read about Cara blends. I have notes from an old 2014 article by Mike Reintz that said:

“Weyermann makes CaraMunich and CaraVienna malt by creating Kilned Caramel Malts–half ends up being Crystal Malt and the other half is Munich or Vienna (depending on temperatures).

Briess doesn’t do any Kilning for their Caramel varieties. Their CaraMunich 60L, for example, is actually just a blend of Caramel 60L and regular Munich Malt. Likewise, their CaraVienne 20L is a blend of Caramel 20L and Vienna Malt.

Based on all that, if you’re looking for a Lovibond rating of CaraMunich or CaraVienne that you can’t find, just do a 50/50 blend of Caramel Malt and Munich/Vienna.

For example, CaraMunich 40L = 50% Caramel 40L + 50% Munich. CaraVienne 80L = 50% Caramel 80L + 50% Vienna.”


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« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 04:10:55 AM by BrewBama »
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Offline Iliff Ave

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2020, 05:16:57 AM »
Interesting stuff. Explains why I like caramunich so much.
On Tap/Bottled: Hoppy Amber Lager, IPA, Red Rye, Spiced English Porter

Fermenting: yellow
Up Next: imperial pils, IPA

Online ynotbrusum

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2020, 10:59:48 AM »
From the Briess website:

Q: What's the difference between Caramel and Crystal Malts?
A: Dave Kuske, our Director of Malting Operations, explains it this way.
The difference between Caramel and Crystal malts involves both terminology and chemistry and production differences.

As for terminology, the European maltsters landed on crystal malt as the descriptor of malts that go through a conversion step where starches are rapidly (typically within 45 minutes) converted to sugars and the sugars are then crystallized at high temperatures in a roaster. Somewhere in our distant past, it was decided that our crystal style malts produced in the same manner were given the name caramel Malt.

The term caramel really refers to the process of pyrolisis of sugars. When I give presentations on the process, I encourage the audience to envision a candy thermometer. There are different temperature "breaks" where different "types" of caramel are produced and each have unique and very different physical and flavor properties. Crystal style malt is in reality the end process of achieving high enough temperatures to produce a 'hard crack' type caramel inside of each malt kernel, which results in a hard glassy endosperm. This crystallization lends unique properties to the flavor and functionality of the malt. In order to achieve crystallization, the actual kernel temperature must exceed 300ºF, which requires much higher applied temperatures only achievable using a roaster, which has the burner capacity to reach in excess of 700+ºF if needed.

There are Caramel malts on the market that are produced using a kiln. The green malt is heated at minimal airflow and is held at high moisture content for an extended period of time (more like hours than minutes) on the upper kiln to "stew" the malt to allow the enzymes to break the starches into sugars.  It is a tricky step on the kiln because it is difficult to get the wet malt heated up to the enzyme optimum temperatures (60-70ºC or 140-158ºF) without drying the malt in the process, which slows the enzymatic breakdown. I liken it to trying to heat up a wet bath towel. After stewing, the malt is heated at the highest temperature possible on the kiln, which is not hot enough to actually crystallize the sugars due to maximum temperature limitations on the kiln. In most cases, 220-240ºF burner temperature is as high as one can achieve on a kiln, which falls far short of crystallization temperature of the predominant sugars. There is some caramelization that occurs at the lower temperatures, but the majority of the color and flavor development is due to the Maillard reaction (sugar + amino acid) which provides a different flavor profile and a mealy/powdery endosperm.
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Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2020, 01:39:08 PM »
So how does CaraBohemian fit in to this discussion?
Now On Tap:
1. Fest Bier
2. Oktoberfest
3. London Porter
4. Winter Lager (Sam Adams)
5. Oktoberfest (Sam Adams)

Online Village Taphouse

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2020, 03:43:58 PM »
From the Briess website:

Q: What's the difference between Caramel and Crystal Malts?
A: Dave Kuske, our Director of Malting Operations, explains it this way.
The difference between Caramel and Crystal malts involves both terminology and chemistry and production differences.

As for terminology, the European maltsters landed on crystal malt as the descriptor of malts that go through a conversion step where starches are rapidly (typically within 45 minutes) converted to sugars and the sugars are then crystallized at high temperatures in a roaster. Somewhere in our distant past, it was decided that our crystal style malts produced in the same manner were given the name caramel Malt.

The term caramel really refers to the process of pyrolisis of sugars. When I give presentations on the process, I encourage the audience to envision a candy thermometer. There are different temperature "breaks" where different "types" of caramel are produced and each have unique and very different physical and flavor properties. Crystal style malt is in reality the end process of achieving high enough temperatures to produce a 'hard crack' type caramel inside of each malt kernel, which results in a hard glassy endosperm. This crystallization lends unique properties to the flavor and functionality of the malt. In order to achieve crystallization, the actual kernel temperature must exceed 300ºF, which requires much higher applied temperatures only achievable using a roaster, which has the burner capacity to reach in excess of 700+ºF if needed.

There are Caramel malts on the market that are produced using a kiln. The green malt is heated at minimal airflow and is held at high moisture content for an extended period of time (more like hours than minutes) on the upper kiln to "stew" the malt to allow the enzymes to break the starches into sugars.  It is a tricky step on the kiln because it is difficult to get the wet malt heated up to the enzyme optimum temperatures (60-70ºC or 140-158ºF) without drying the malt in the process, which slows the enzymatic breakdown. I liken it to trying to heat up a wet bath towel. After stewing, the malt is heated at the highest temperature possible on the kiln, which is not hot enough to actually crystallize the sugars due to maximum temperature limitations on the kiln. In most cases, 220-240ºF burner temperature is as high as one can achieve on a kiln, which falls far short of crystallization temperature of the predominant sugars. There is some caramelization that occurs at the lower temperatures, but the majority of the color and flavor development is due to the Maillard reaction (sugar + amino acid) which provides a different flavor profile and a mealy/powdery endosperm.
Mmm, that's good stuff.  This is an area I do not dive into very deeply... I just try to use high quality stuff.  I admit that I like my occasional use of CaraMunich I and II and also CaraVienne in certain styles.  I will also use some Special B and English Dark Crystal but in small amounts.  I will use C40 and C60 in some ales that I make.  But generally I am using LESS crystal/caramel malt in my recipes these days.  It also gets mildly disorienting because different maltsters have different names for basically the same thing.  I ordered some CaraVienne from a local place (to pick up) and when I got there she handed me the bag and it said CaraRuby on it.  I said that this wasn't my order and that I ordered CaraVienne and she shrugged and said "This is CaraVienne... just a different name and different maltster".   :o 
Ken from Chicago

Online ynotbrusum

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2020, 04:36:07 PM »
So how does CaraBohemian fit in to this discussion?

Just showing the process considerations for those who might be interested.  Carabohemian is merely Weyermann's 64.5-83.4 L caramel malt.  Here is the link to the Briess site for its Caramunich:

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_CaramelMunichMalt60L.pdf

Probably pretty close to Carabohemian….
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2020, 07:05:29 PM »
So...just had a small glass of my recently kegged Fest Bier.

It is a winner! And thanks again to the Village Tap House for the heads-up on the grain bill.

I feel like I'm sitting in the outdoor courtyard of the Paulaner Restaurant in Frankfurt, DE.

This is a definite entry for the upcoming Bluebonnet.
Now On Tap:
1. Fest Bier
2. Oktoberfest
3. London Porter
4. Winter Lager (Sam Adams)
5. Oktoberfest (Sam Adams)

Online Village Taphouse

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2020, 07:18:11 PM »
So...just had a small glass of my recently kegged Fest Bier.

It is a winner! And thanks again to the Village Tap House for the heads-up on the grain bill.

I feel like I'm sitting in the outdoor courtyard of the Paulaner Restaurant in Frankfurt, DE.

This is a definite entry for the upcoming Bluebonnet.
Did you make it with the simpler grain bill?  Depending on the specific grains, anywhere from 50/50 pils/Munich 2 down to something like 65/35 pils/munich 2 can be really nice.  One hop addition at the start of the boil for about 25 IBUs or so.  I need to check my notes but I think that Spalt hops that are in excellent condition might be the way to go on the hops.  I'm sure I did Magnum and also Hallertau Mitt on a couple of these but I have some really good Spalt hops right now and they're very fresh, vibrant and punchy. 
Ken from Chicago

Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2020, 08:42:46 PM »
So...just had a small glass of my recently kegged Fest Bier.

It is a winner! And thanks again to the Village Tap House for the heads-up on the grain bill.

I feel like I'm sitting in the outdoor courtyard of the Paulaner Restaurant in Frankfurt, DE.

This is a definite entry for the upcoming Bluebonnet.
Did you make it with the simpler grain bill?  Depending on the specific grains, anywhere from 50/50 pils/Munich 2 down to something like 65/35 pils/munich 2 can be really nice.  One hop addition at the start of the boil for about 25 IBUs or so.  I need to check my notes but I think that Spalt hops that are in excellent condition might be the way to go on the hops.  I'm sure I did Magnum and also Hallertau Mitt on a couple of these but I have some really good Spalt hops right now and they're very fresh, vibrant and punchy.

Yes, 14 lbs Pils, 4 lbs Vienna, 4 lbs Munich. 10 gallon brew.
2.5 oz Mt. Hood FWH.
Wyeast Oktoberfest Lager Blend (3rd Gen)
OG - 1.050
FG - 1.011
ABV - 5.12%

It turned out exactly the way I hoped, especially the color. It looks and tastes very close to the Paulaner Fest Bier on draft at the brewery restaurant.
Now On Tap:
1. Fest Bier
2. Oktoberfest
3. London Porter
4. Winter Lager (Sam Adams)
5. Oktoberfest (Sam Adams)

Offline jverduin

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Re: Fest Bier
« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2020, 03:46:21 AM »
So...just had a small glass of my recently kegged Fest Bier.

It is a winner! And thanks again to the Village Tap House for the heads-up on the grain bill.

I feel like I'm sitting in the outdoor courtyard of the Paulaner Restaurant in Frankfurt, DE.

This is a definite entry for the upcoming Bluebonnet.
Did you make it with the simpler grain bill?  Depending on the specific grains, anywhere from 50/50 pils/Munich 2 down to something like 65/35 pils/munich 2 can be really nice.  One hop addition at the start of the boil for about 25 IBUs or so.  I need to check my notes but I think that Spalt hops that are in excellent condition might be the way to go on the hops.  I'm sure I did Magnum and also Hallertau Mitt on a couple of these but I have some really good Spalt hops right now and they're very fresh, vibrant and punchy.

Yes, 14 lbs Pils, 4 lbs Vienna, 4 lbs Munich. 10 gallon brew.
2.5 oz Mt. Hood FWH.
Wyeast Oktoberfest Lager Blend (3rd Gen)
OG - 1.050
FG - 1.011
ABV - 5.12%

It turned out exactly the way I hoped, especially the color. It looks and tastes very close to the Paulaner Fest Bier on draft at the brewery restaurant.
I’m a big fan of using malts in combinations like you mention. It works (in my opinion) for marzen, Vienna, bocks (Helles, bock and doppel). I adjust percentages and may sub in melanoiden, aromatic or darker Munich malts. I’ve generally been happy without crystal type malts in these German lagers.


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