Author Topic: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains  (Read 1105 times)

Offline skyler

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Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« on: September 30, 2020, 05:15:42 PM »
So I have encountered enough discussion about pitching rates for Lallemand strains, and have made use of their pitching rate calculator https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/brewers-corner/brewing-tools/pitching-rate-calculator/, that I am curious how I should use my newly-purchased sachets of Verdant IPA, New England and Koln.

For the Koln, I figure I will either make a starter (totally negating the purpose of buying dry yeast) or just try a "light Kolsch" at around 1.040 fermented in the low 60s.

For the others, I figure I can either build starters or blend them and brew an IPA with both "Hazy IPA" strains or I can brew a much smaller "starter beer" or something where I would be less upset by the likely underpitching-related flaws (like a brown ale or porter).

Or is this just a weird gimmick designed to get us to buy twice as much yeast?

Has anyone else brewed a >1.060 beer with one of these strains pitching a single sachet? It's just weird that they would even sell it this way, TBH.

Offline denny

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2020, 05:27:38 PM »
Do they recommend making starters?  That's usually not recommended for dry yeast.
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Offline skyler

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2020, 05:33:33 PM »
Do they recommend making starters?  That's usually not recommended for dry yeast.

They don't even mention starters as an option. They just recommend 2 packs for a moderate-gravity pitch. I realize many of the benefits of dry yeast are lost by making a starter, but if you're operating with half as many cells (or less), then you have options to consider. For the Verdant IPA New England, they actually recommend 3 sachets for 20L of 1.060 beer.

Online BrewBama

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Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2020, 05:49:10 PM »
Are you making 10 gal? When I poke a 5.5 gal batch of 1.060 beer using Verdent into their pitch rate calculator I get ~15 grams.  That’s fairly routine across their Ale product line. I would weight out ~15 grams, vacuum seal the remaining yeast in the pack, and refrigerate it for use in the next brew.


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« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 05:50:51 PM by BrewBama »
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Offline denny

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2020, 05:57:15 PM »
Do they recommend making starters?  That's usually not recommended for dry yeast.

They don't even mention starters as an option. They just recommend 2 packs for a moderate-gravity pitch. I realize many of the benefits of dry yeast are lost by making a starter, but if you're operating with half as many cells (or less), then you have options to consider. For the Verdant IPA New England, they actually recommend 3 sachets for 20L of 1.060 beer.
[/quote

It's not just that benefits are lost...there could be detriments too.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline skyler

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2020, 06:44:51 PM »
Are you making 10 gal? When I poke a 5.5 gal batch of 1.060 beer using Verdent into their pitch rate calculator I get ~15 grams.  That’s fairly routine across their Ale product line. I would weight out ~15 grams, vacuum seal the remaining yeast in the pack, and refrigerate it for use in the next brew.


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Try the rest of their product line. New England and Koln come out differently. I didn't realize Verdant IPA shows the same numbers as BRY-97 and Nottingham -- had I spotted that, I probably would have kept Verdant IPA out of this post. I am comfortable, based on repeated personal experience, with pitching one pack of BRY-97 into 5.5 gallons of <1.065 beer. Usually if I am brewing something stronger than that, I will pitch two packs or just use some 2nd generation slurry. I know it takes twice as much for a lager, so I generally pitch 2 packs for a standard-strength lager. While I had hoped Koln would outperform K97, if it is half as many cells, I am probably more likely to stick with K97. I definitely balk at the idea that New England requires as much as 3 sachets for a 5 gallon batch of moderate-gravity wort. At that point it's no longer convenient or cost-effective to use -- I would rather just buy a pack of Imperial Barbarian. But since I already have a pack, I wonder what I ought to do with it. My thinking right now is using it for a dark mild and then pitching the 2nd generation into an IPA.


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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2020, 06:59:11 PM »
That is odd that those two ale strains’ pitching rate is 100g/hL to achieve a minimum of 1 million viable cells/mL.  I’d shoot Lallemand a note and double check their logic. They may have a decent explanation.  ...but they may have just as likely made a mistake.


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Online roger

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2020, 09:25:50 PM »
You are right, the Verdant pitch rate seems to be similar to their other ale yeasts. Personally, I would be comfortable pitching 1 sachet in 5 gallons of 1.060 wort. That's me, YMMV.

The Koln seems to be an outlier. 28.4 grams of dry yeast for the same 5 gallons of 1.060 wort, doesn't pass the reasonability test, for their yeast. Agree with Denny, they may have a typo.
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Offline skyler

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2020, 05:31:44 PM »
Here's what Lallemand told me:

"Thanks for your question. Indeed, the pitching rates for the LalBrew New England and LalBrew Koln strains are higher. These are more sensitive strains and difficult to produce, and as such the viability of the dried yeast is lower. To achieve optimal fermentation performance, we recommend a higher pitching rate for these strains."

So I think it really is just a low cell count per package. It seems like lots of brewers are likely to be confused and underpitch. I sent a follow-up email asking about making a starter.

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2020, 05:34:12 PM »
Interesting that these would be more difficult to produce than others resulting in lower viability.


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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2020, 11:03:39 PM »
Interesting that these would be more difficult to produce than others resulting in lower viability.

The fluid drying process is hard of on yeast cells, which is why there are fewer dry strains than liquid strains.

Offline skyler

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2020, 11:08:27 PM »
From Lallemand:

"Absolutely, you could make a starter from dry yeast, no problems with that. There are advantages to using dry yeast directly (consistent pitch rates, no need to count cells, no need to aerate the wort) that will be lost if you propagate in a starter, but we do indeed have some customers who choose to propagate some of our lower viability strains."


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« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 11:49:37 PM by skyler »

Online BrewBama

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2020, 11:44:00 PM »
Interesting that these would be more difficult to produce than others resulting in lower viability.

The fluid drying process is hard of on yeast cells, which is why there are fewer dry strains than liquid strains.
I agree ..but the “harder on one strain over the other” is what I found interesting.
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Offline skyler

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2020, 12:01:10 AM »
From my perspective, if these strains perform AS WELL as their liquid equivalents, then there is the benefit of easier shipping and storability, as well as the possible slight cost savings. As I have no true LHBS and summer weather here is very hot, it's potentially worth it to keep a couple packs of these around -- I'll know for sure when I have brewed with them. I presume I can just make simple 2L SNS starters and pitch at high krausen like I do with liquid yeast.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 12:17:46 AM by skyler »

Online BrewBama

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Re: Lalbrew Pitching Rates for Newer Strains
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2020, 02:14:30 AM »
I don’t have a local LHBS that stocks liquid yeast either. That’s why I went with dry yeast years ago. I often say I was shipped one too many liquid yeast packs that was DOA. Luckily, dry yeast has come a long way from the bad old days.


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