Author Topic: London ESB & S-33 blend  (Read 459 times)

Offline beerphilmcd

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London ESB & S-33 blend
« on: November 23, 2020, 03:13:32 AM »
Brewed a porter last weekend and pitched 1 sachet London ESB & half a sachet S-33. The idea being I’d get more fruitiness by adding the EDME strain to the London ESB which I haven’t used yet.

I love the West Yorkshire strain along with wlp002, 007, and 013. I despise Windsor and struggle to enjoy S-04 due to its lack of fruity esters and disposition to produce diacetyl which I’m very sensitive to.

The results at 1 week with tons of yeast still in suspension are not promising. It reminds me more of woody musty Windsor than anything else. I’ve decided there simply isn’t a fruity complex English style dry yeast that suits my palate. I do believe it will be much better once cleared but who knows!


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Offline BeerfanOz

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2020, 03:56:38 AM »
Have you tried the verdant IPA yeast? I’ve tried most of the liquid British strains, and love 1469, but the dry verdant IPA yeast is excellent for uk ales. The bitter im drinking now with it is one of the best I’ve made

Offline beerphilmcd

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2020, 04:41:33 AM »
Have you tried the verdant IPA yeast? I’ve tried most of the liquid British strains, and love 1469, but the dry verdant IPA yeast is excellent for uk ales. The bitter im drinking now with it is one of the best I’ve made
Haven’t heard of verdant IPA yeast.


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Offline BeerfanOz

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2020, 06:28:18 AM »
Have you tried the verdant IPA yeast? I’ve tried most of the liquid British strains, and love 1469, but the dry verdant IPA yeast is excellent for uk ales. The bitter im drinking now with it is one of the best I’ve made
Haven’t heard of verdant IPA yeast.


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It’s a new lallemand dry yeast, apparently a variant of London ale 3. Worth looking at, it’s better than any dry yeast I’ve tried for uk ales.

Offline Northern_Brewer

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2020, 10:58:55 AM »
S-33, Windsor and Munton's are close relatives that all appear to be descended from the original EDME strain, and Lallemand London is a close cousin, supposedly it came from the same original multistrain but it's less characterful.

Even the liquid strains available to homebrewers are pale shadows of "real" British multistrains - assuming that it's not convenient for you to get Brewlab slants then probably your best bet is to harvest from something like Fuller's 1845.

Or a common trick here is to pitch eg Windsor followed by Nottingham 48h later to benefit from the latter's attenuation and flocculation.

The Lallemand Verdant is the new cool kid on the block - a derivative of 1318 originally intended for hazies, it's apparently a great all-round yeast, albeit not particularly classic in style for British beers.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 11:00:26 AM by Northern_Brewer »

Offline beerphilmcd

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2020, 01:31:22 PM »
NB, Notty is my favorite yeast but is very clean. I love it it’s fermentation properties of dropping bright so quickly. If you stress it you can get some mild fruitiness that frankly is superior to the other dry English yeast. However it is my go to for a neutral yeast be it dry or liquid. I’ve probably made 70+ batches with Nottingham.


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Offline BrewBama

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2020, 01:52:34 PM »
I could be full of beans here but....

It is my understanding that part of the English taste is derived from what was cask conditioning. Brett. that grew in the casks developed the characteristic flavors and aromas of the English beers. (Brettanomyces = Latin for British brewing fungus.)

The isolates we use today eliminated the Brett. To get the full on experience try an English strain + Brett.

Disregard all after “I could be full of beans here but...” if this is completely wrong.

Cheers.


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Offline BeerfanOz

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2020, 08:34:20 PM »
S-33, Windsor and Munton's are close relatives that all appear to be descended from the original EDME strain, and Lallemand London is a close cousin, supposedly it came from the same original multistrain but it's less characterful.

Even the liquid strains available to homebrewers are pale shadows of "real" British multistrains - assuming that it's not convenient for you to get Brewlab slants then probably your best bet is to harvest from something like Fuller's 1845.

Or a common trick here is to pitch eg Windsor followed by Nottingham 48h later to benefit from the latter's attenuation and flocculation.

The Lallemand Verdant is the new cool kid on the block - a derivative of 1318 originally intended for hazies, it's apparently a great all-round yeast, albeit not particularly classic in style for British beers.

I think the bitter I’m drinking now with verdant is the best I’ve made in a long time. Subtle stone fruit esters and dry finish. Personally, I think it’s better in uk ales rather than US ales, the APA I made with it is nice but I don’t know if the esters play nicely with the US hops.

Offline Northern_Brewer

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2020, 12:23:14 PM »
I could be full of beans here but....

It is my understanding that part of the English taste is derived from what was cask conditioning. Brett. that grew in the casks developed the characteristic flavors and aromas of the English beers. (Brettanomyces = Latin for British brewing fungus.)

The isolates we use today eliminated the Brett. To get the full on experience try an English strain + Brett.

Disregard all after “I could be full of beans here but...” if this is completely wrong.

It's historically correct, but it was only really true in the 19th century. There's tiny, tiny amounts of British beer aged in wood these days but they are niche curiosities. So it's a bit like saying that the true "American taste" is that of pre-Prohibition steam beers and so all modern NEIPAs should be fermented with lager yeast in open fermenters, because that's how you get "the American taste".

For the last 60 years or so cask conditioning has been done in steel casks that are cleaned with caustic and typically given a final rinse with peracetic or steam before filling - there's no wild bugs involved.

I think the bitter I’m drinking now with verdant is the best I’ve made in a long time. Subtle stone fruit esters and dry finish. Personally, I think it’s better in uk ales rather than US ales, the APA I made with it is nice but I don’t know if the esters play nicely with the US hops.

I've not tried it myself, some people really like it for British beers, some not so much. The vanilla can put some people off - and certainly isn't classic for British yeast, but I wonder if that's because people have got too much wheat in their grist, ferulic acid can be readily converted to vanillin.

Offline BeerfanOz

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2020, 09:05:12 PM »
I don’t get vanilla with it. No wheat in my bitter, just Simpson’s Maris otter and Simpson’s medium crystal and EKG.

Offline beerphilmcd

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2020, 06:17:53 AM »
Update, things are looking up! It’s cold crashed and I took a tasting sample tonight when adding gelatin. With the yeast out of the way most all the musty Windsor characters were gone and it became easier to pickup mild fruitiness. There is a background flavor that I can only describe as green, not green beer or even chlorophyll. I get it from wlp013. Much better now, got the roast coming through with a nice porter character.


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Offline Cliffs

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2020, 05:37:41 PM »
S-33, Windsor and Munton's are close relatives that all appear to be descended from the original EDME strain, and Lallemand London is a close cousin, supposedly it came from the same original multistrain but it's less characterful.

Even the liquid strains available to homebrewers are pale shadows of "real" British multistrains - assuming that it's not convenient for you to get Brewlab slants then probably your best bet is to harvest from something like Fuller's 1845.

Or a common trick here is to pitch eg Windsor followed by Nottingham 48h later to benefit from the latter's attenuation and flocculation.

The Lallemand Verdant is the new cool kid on the block - a derivative of 1318 originally intended for hazies, it's apparently a great all-round yeast, albeit not particularly classic in style for British beers.

I wish I could get my hands on some of those slants. I'd be willing to prop up and share if the forum wanted to go in on some.

Offline Northern_Brewer

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2020, 10:49:22 PM »
I don't know what's happening with Brewlab at the moment - they primarily supply breweries but historically they have been quite good at letting homebrewers have slants on the side at a price that didn't really reflect the work involved. Then as the brewery work got busier they tried to outsource the retail stuff, but chose the wrong partner in the new-look Hop & Grape who ended up with a choice of six strains and couldn't even keep them in stock much of the time.

So I don't know how it's working at the moment - this HBT thread has more on the strains at H&G, and describes someone's experience in trying to deal direct with Brewlab 18 months ago, but who knows what's happening at the moment - it could be they're twiddling their thumbs as all their commercial partners are struggling with Covid, or it could be they're flat out as half of the staff are self-isolating.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2020, 06:06:04 PM »
I don't know what's happening with Brewlab at the moment - they primarily supply breweries but historically they have been quite good at letting homebrewers have slants on the side at a price that didn't really reflect the work involved. Then as the brewery work got busier they tried to outsource the retail stuff, but chose the wrong partner in the new-look Hop & Grape who ended up with a choice of six strains and couldn't even keep them in stock much of the time.

I do not believe that many American brewers are ready for Brewlab cultures. :)  I acquired my cultures back when it was still possible to order directly from Brewlab.  I like fruity cultures, but I did not care for any of the six cultures I received enough to subculture them for my last bank.  I came to conclusion that the Brewlab strains probably perform better at normal British gravities than the 1.050+ gravities commony found in American brewing.  Devon 1 was a banana bomb at 1.060.

Offline Northern_Brewer

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Re: London ESB & S-33 blend
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2020, 12:43:17 PM »
The Hanlons strain is a banana bomb at any gravity!

If you had "the usual six" then that wouldn't have included some of the fun northern strains they keep up their sleeve, but at least it gives some idea of the diversity of British strains in the real world - the fact that a majority of Brewlab strains are at least somewhat phenolic would come as a surprise to people who think that WL/Wyeast are representative of British strains.