Author Topic: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70  (Read 2911 times)

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2020, 06:11:13 PM »
I get a distinct character from 2124/3470/Diamond that I recognize...

2308/838 is another strain with a very distinct character to me.

FYI -- genomic testing has shown that 2124 is quite distant from the other two, and that 838 is actually a Sacch. cerevisiae strain and thus not even a lager, so it cannot be identical to 2308.

So... it might be helpful to specify which ones you are actually referring to.  OR, it might be noteworthy that these strains are all so darn close to one another that it just doesn't matter what genomics is telling us?!  I honestly don't know which!  :D   8)

References:

http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4112

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/709535v1.article-info
Dave

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Offline denny

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2020, 06:25:35 PM »
I get a distinct character from 2124/3470/Diamond that I recognize...

2308/838 is another strain with a very distinct character to me.

FYI -- genomic testing has shown that 2124 is quite distant from the other two, and that 838 is actually a Sacch. cerevisiae strain and thus not even a lager, so it cannot be identical to 2308.

So... it might be helpful to specify which ones you are actually referring to.  OR, it might be noteworthy that these strains are all so darn close to one another that it just doesn't matter what genomics is telling us?!  I honestly don't know which!  :D   8)

References:

http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4112

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/709535v1.article-info

Genomics is interesting, but the beer doesn't know about it.  All that matters is the taste.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2020, 07:24:01 PM »
All that matters is the taste.

I absolutely cannot argue with this!
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2020, 07:52:46 PM »
All that matters is the taste.

I absolutely cannot argue with this!
I’ll second that. Cheers!


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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2020, 08:17:16 PM »
I was saying that I like 2124 and that it has a very distinct character to my tastebuds.  My understanding was that 34/70 was a dry version of 2124 and also that Diamond was very close to 34/70.  I may be wrong on that.  I have never used 34/70 but many people say it's very similar to 2124 and that the description often has that "most popular lager strain in the world!" comment which 2124 also has.  Diamond seemed very similar to 2124 to me when I used it.  On the 2308/838 thing, I was under the impression they were the same.  I have used 2308 many times but never 838.  I happen to have a packet of 838 in my fridge and it's up next here so I will find out very soon.  Everything I have ever seen comparing the strains says that 2308 and 838 are the same yeast but again... that may not be accurate. 
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Offline denny

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2020, 08:24:28 PM »
I was saying that I like 2124 and that it has a very distinct character to my tastebuds.  My understanding was that 34/70 was a dry version of 2124 and also that Diamond was very close to 34/70.  I may be wrong on that.  I have never used 34/70 but many people say it's very similar to 2124 and that the description often has that "most popular lager strain in the world!" comment which 2124 also has.  Diamond seemed very similar to 2124 to me when I used it.  On the 2308/838 thing, I was under the impression they were the same.  I have used 2308 many times but never 838.  I happen to have a packet of 838 in my fridge and it's up next here so I will find out very soon.  Everything I have ever seen comparing the strains says that 2308 and 838 are the same yeast but again... that may not be accurate.

Technically, 2124, 34/70 and Diamond all have the same heritage.
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2020, 09:00:42 PM »
Technically, 2124, 34/70 and Diamond all have the same heritage.
That's what I understood.  They're derived from a Weihenstephan lager strain.    It's been awhile since I brewed with 2124 but I have some in the house now and it will be used over the winter.  The Diamond that I used [A LOT!] last summer seemed like it had a 2124 character but maybe I'll do an experiment and make two batches back-to-back... one with 2124 and one with Diamond which I also have in the fridge.  That would be interesting. 
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2020, 11:58:10 PM »
I used 838 regularly when I started brewing lagers, but also for Kölsch - it really shines.  Omega Bayern is a true beast of a lager yeast.  Almost forgot about that one.

This winter I have to make a Dunkel with the Omega Bayern!
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2020, 12:37:45 AM »
I used 838 regularly when I started brewing lagers, but also for Kölsch - it really shines.  Omega Bayern is a true beast of a lager yeast.  Almost forgot about that one.

This winter I have to make a Dunkel with the Omega Bayern!

That's coming up here this weekend.  60/40 Munich 2/Pils plus 3 ounces of Carafa III, Hallertau hops to about 24 IBUs and Omega Bayern.  Looking forward to it. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline beersk

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2020, 03:47:58 PM »
I used 838 regularly when I started brewing lagers, but also for Kölsch - it really shines.  Omega Bayern is a true beast of a lager yeast.  Almost forgot about that one.

This winter I have to make a Dunkel with the Omega Bayern!

That's coming up here this weekend.  60/40 Munich 2/Pils plus 3 ounces of Carafa III, Hallertau hops to about 24 IBUs and Omega Bayern.  Looking forward to it. 
That does sound quite good. Enjoy!
Jesse

Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2020, 02:03:26 PM »
I was saying that I like 2124 and that it has a very distinct character to my tastebuds.  My understanding was that 34/70 was a dry version of 2124 and also that Diamond was very close to 34/70.  I may be wrong on that.  I have never used 34/70 but many people say it's very similar to 2124 and that the description often has that "most popular lager strain in the world!" comment which 2124 also has.  Diamond seemed very similar to 2124 to me when I used it.  On the 2308/838 thing, I was under the impression they were the same.  I have used 2308 many times but never 838.  I happen to have a packet of 838 in my fridge and it's up next here so I will find out very soon.  Everything I have ever seen comparing the strains says that 2308 and 838 are the same yeast but again... that may not be accurate.

I feel about the same way. I think Diamond is much more similar to the liquid equivalent (2124). 2124 is just a great all around Lager yeast. 34/70 is usually pretty good as well, but I think it's not as similar to 2124 as the Diamond is...especially 34/70 and Diamond side by side. To me, 34/70 takes on a tad bit more American Style Lager style Lager characteristics. On a side note, S-189 is quite different than all of them and is much more malt forward and great in an Oktoberfest, Bock but I haven't tried it in lighter lagers, Pilsners, etc. Perhaps S-189 is more like a Bavarian Lager yeast.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2020, 08:07:18 PM »
I was saying that I like 2124 and that it has a very distinct character to my tastebuds.  My understanding was that 34/70 was a dry version of 2124 and also that Diamond was very close to 34/70.  I may be wrong on that.  I have never used 34/70 but many people say it's very similar to 2124 and that the description often has that "most popular lager strain in the world!" comment which 2124 also has.  Diamond seemed very similar to 2124 to me when I used it.  On the 2308/838 thing, I was under the impression they were the same.  I have used 2308 many times but never 838.  I happen to have a packet of 838 in my fridge and it's up next here so I will find out very soon.  Everything I have ever seen comparing the strains says that 2308 and 838 are the same yeast but again... that may not be accurate.

I feel about the same way. I think Diamond is much more similar to the liquid equivalent (2124). 2124 is just a great all around Lager yeast. 34/70 is usually pretty good as well, but I think it's not as similar to 2124 as the Diamond is...especially 34/70 and Diamond side by side. To me, 34/70 takes on a tad bit more American Style Lager style Lager characteristics. On a side note, S-189 is quite different than all of them and is much more malt forward and great in an Oktoberfest, Bock but I haven't tried it in lighter lagers, Pilsners, etc. Perhaps S-189 is more like a Bavarian Lager yeast.

At one time, it was stated that S-189 was from the Swiss brewery Hurliman, the former maker of Samiclaus, but that may have been anecdotal and I have no idea if it has been genetically sequenced at this point.  So much of what we thought we knew is being shown to be other than we thought!
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2020, 12:25:58 AM »
The mfr claims it came from Hürlimann:




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