[rungdalek]

Cold pitching.

1.) Make a 2L starter from smack pack; refrigerate when done
2.) Make a 5L starter from decanted 2L starter; refrigerate when done
3.) Decant 5L starter and pitch into wort
4.) On each decant/pitch cycle, the yeast must be colder (ideally no more than 5-10F) than the wort being inoculated and the *final* wort being inoculated should be at the ideal starting fermentation temperature.

Fairly simple concept with excellent results!

That's certainly one way to do it, and I've done something similar many times.  But I've found that a standard SNS works equally well assuming a 6 gal. batch under 1.060 OG.

The concept of SNS does not allow it to be decanted or pitched cold, which sends you back to the previous problems, making an estery brew, etc...  SNS might be more appropriate for ales than lagers.

Do I take this to mean you haven't tried it?

Who hasn't tried SNS?  That's not the point. 

Making a starter is generally associated with warmer temperatures to encourage yeast population growth and thus requires the chill/decant/pitch cycle.

A SNS at lager temperatures (such that it can be pitched at lager temperatures) simply doesn't have those properties.

Given a 2L SNS starter (actively fermenting) at lager temperatures - you *might* ferment the wort but it won't match the cell density of the stepped up and decanted - cold pitch.

Cell count doesn't really matter for SNS.  I have pitched 1 qt. SNS starters fermented at room temp into lager many times.  There were no issues due to it.  That's what I was wondering...if you've tried the same thing.

It's not totally about cell count per se (but that's a huge part of it), but the "power" of the starter to begin fermenting beer in short order and without stressing the yeast.

A cold fermenting SNS starter *at lager temperature* just doesn't have that capability.

A warm fermenting SNS starter *at room temperature* pitched into cold wort doesn't have that capability, pitched into room temperature wort and then cooled *may* have some of the same characteristics but then you're back where you started.

[denny]

Yet it works....please do what you think is the right thing to do.  I'll do the same.

[rungdalek]

Yet it works....please do what you think is the right thing to do.  I'll do the same.

All of those options work but which is producing the ever subjective best beer?  If it makes beer you like go for it.

[ynotbrusum]

Yet it works....please do what you think is the right thing to do.  I'll do the same.

All of those options work but which is producing the ever subjective best beer?  If it makes beer you like go for it.

I frequently will step up a yeast cake from 2.5 gallon direct pitch batch to a five gallon batch to a ten gallon batch.  From there I rack on brew day and take a 175 ml ladle per 5 gallons.  Sounds somewhat similar to what you do, but I get a batch of beer to drink on the first go.

These are lagers and they finish under 7 days from brew date.  I also have used an SNS lager yeast starter at fridge temp at high krausen.

We all do what works and there are many ways to do this.  In the end it is about making beer that you like.  Lastly, I have a friend who won many medals and BOS for his Bock, which he always started warm for a few hours and then stepped down into lager temps.  He is now a professional brewer who makes mostly traditional lager styles.  They are quite good.  Cheers all.