Author Topic: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...  (Read 10817 times)

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2020, 09:54:03 am »
I agree with Bob.  I think it's a non-issue.  I transfer until I hit my desired fermenter volume and then stop.  I always transfer some trub and always leave some behind.  The measurement of "some" really comes down to my boil off rate for that batch.  I honestly can't single out any ill effects that transferred trub might be causing to the finished beer.
This seems to be universally true except for in the LO world.  Is Big Monk (or anyone who is on the LO forum) still on this board?  I know for a fact that trub in the fermenter was a no-no but that may have applied specifically to spunding and also to not-fining.  For some time I had visions of spunding and I could still spund (I have a Tilt hydrometer and also a SpundIt! valve) but my vision included only clear wort into the fermenter, spunding and no fining.  I would be okay getting some trub, force-carbing and fining.  Those of you in the LO camp, look away.  ;) 

As an aside, my wife and I were sitting outside with a fire in the firepit last Sunday.  I was drinking one of my pale ales and she was drinking my red lager.  Both of the beers were crystal clear, a nice head on the beers and they both tasted fantastic.  At some point she said, "No one makes beer like yours" which made me puff up with pride.  The fact that she may have had 10 glasses (or so) of it may have contributed to that comment.  But the point  is that I am happy with my beers but still always staying alert to ways to make it better.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 09:57:53 am by Village Taphouse »
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Online ynotbrusum

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2020, 02:31:26 pm »
Sounds like you make a good enough beer to not even question improvement!  I have gone down rabbit holes and chased unicorns, too.  The LO guys go to extreme lengths to avoid staling compounds as well as minimizing oxidation/oxygen exposure on both sides of production.  I incorporated a lot of their processes and have pared back on some aspects based on what I see as being within my means and what is beyond my means or what I am willing to do to improve my outcomes.  Trub is not the highest issue on my list...but chasing unicorns can be fun!  Cheers.
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2020, 02:51:18 pm »
Sounds like you make a good enough beer to not even question improvement!  I have gone down rabbit holes and chased unicorns, too.  The LO guys go to extreme lengths to avoid staling compounds as well as minimizing oxidation/oxygen exposure on both sides of production.  I incorporated a lot of their processes and have pared back on some aspects based on what I see as being within my means and what is beyond my means or what I am willing to do to improve my outcomes.  Trub is not the highest issue on my list...but chasing unicorns can be fun!  Cheers.
You and I have a lot in common in how we approach things, IMO.  I too looked at the LO stuff but I was not necessarily going to jump in with both feet or spend a ton of money on things I wasn't sure I even needed.  I did not spend much and I feel like I covered some of the big areas.  One thing I backed off on was the conditioning of the grain before milling.  It sounds like many people got away from that.  I feel like... when you decide that your beer can't get any better, that's when you run the risk of getting stale.  I do like to stay on top of things, hear about the latest ingredients, processes, equipment, etc. and if I think that there is something that can make even better beer, I listen.  I'll try most things at least once to see if there's anything to it.  Cheers. 
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2020, 04:57:48 pm »
The key to achieving low trub cast-out wort is to whirlpool followed by drawing the wort off slowly.  The faster one draws off wort, the higher the suction.  What helps me is that I use a poor man's aerator, which is a short piece of racking cane with holes drilled into it at an angle such that the angle is pointing down.  If one uses one of these devices, it is darn near impossible to draw wort off fast enough to cause enough to suction to pull trub to the side because the wort in the fermentation vessel is foaming so crazily that one has to slow down the flow.

Offline Sanatorium

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2020, 05:15:09 pm »
This seems to be universally true except for in the LO world.  Is Big Monk (or anyone who is on the LO forum) still on this board? 

From what I can tell is that they have all either been banned or forced to leave for "dissenting views". Which seems extremely counter-productive and very echo chamber like. But hey, I'm a "new guy" and not in the "good ole boys" club.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2020, 05:57:48 pm »
The key to achieving low trub cast-out wort is to whirlpool followed by drawing the wort off slowly.  The faster one draws off wort, the higher the suction.  What helps me is that I use a poor man's aerator, which is a short piece of racking cane with holes drilled into it at an angle such that the angle is pointing down.  If one uses one of these devices, it is darn near impossible to draw wort off fast enough to cause enough to suction to pull trub to the side because the wort in the fermentation vessel is foaming so crazily that one has to slow down the flow.
Mmm, you remind me that I had one of those plastic, inline "reducers" so that I could adjust the flow rate.  I actually thought that the concept was snake oil so I stopped using it.  It snaps onto the tubing and can be adjusted to decrease the flow rate.  I know I still have it.  Maybe I'll try that on this weekend's dunkel.  Thanks for the reminder. 
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2020, 06:01:54 pm »
From what I can tell is that they have all either been banned or forced to leave for "dissenting views". Which seems extremely counter-productive and very echo chamber like. But hey, I'm a "new guy" and not in the "good ole boys" club.
I don't want to get too deep into this but I'll say this:  The vast majority (almost everyone) that I had contact with was very good and very helpful.  Not everyone had the same approach to working with people who were just trying to get their feet wet with LO brewing.  Big ups to many of the brewers over there for helping me and suggesting ways for me to use the equipment that I had and apply it to LO brewing.  I have seen a lot of bickering on many boards over the LO vs. non-LO brewers and while I don't care for it, I don't necessarily want to see them banned either.  My opinion is that they brought information forward for others to either accept or reject.  I knew people who criticized the LO information without even trying any of it and that part I don't get. 
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline Bilsch

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2020, 07:41:55 pm »
I think the Low Ox people mostly left of their own accord, save a couple notable exceptions, and simply prefer to hang out with others who have the same goals for brewing. It's amazing the progress that can be made as a group working together not having to constantly defend ones position as crazy or cult-like all the time. If you guys could see the things we are currently working on, you'd be truly amazed. :)

Offline Richard

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2020, 10:13:38 pm »
Yes, truly amazed at what can be accomplished when everyone agrees and you don't have to defend your results all the time.

Please review the definitions of cult and peer-reviewed science.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 10:35:24 pm by Richard »
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Offline Sanatorium

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2020, 06:48:46 am »
Yes, truly amazed at what can be accomplished when everyone agrees and you don't have to defend your results all the time.

Please review the definitions of cult and peer-reviewed science.

Which can be easily applied to forums like this.  ;)

Offline BrewBama

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Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2020, 07:18:47 am »
Yes, truly amazed at what can be accomplished when everyone agrees and you don't have to defend your results all the time.

Please review the definitions of cult and peer-reviewed science.

Which can be easily applied to forums like this.  ;)
Especially one that only discusses one acceptable means to an end and venerates their leader.

Stick around, you’ll find plenty of viewpoints, methods, processes, and equipment here.  ...and some here even blaspheme to the point we use dry yeast and, at times, disagree with each other.


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« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 07:42:19 am by BrewBama »

Offline goose

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2020, 08:17:49 am »
From what I can tell is that they have all either been banned or forced to leave for "dissenting views". Which seems extremely counter-productive and very echo chamber like. But hey, I'm a "new guy" and not in the "good ole boys" club.
I don't want to get too deep into this but I'll say this:  The vast majority (almost everyone) that I had contact with was very good and very helpful.  Not everyone had the same approach to working with people who were just trying to get their feet wet with LO brewing.  Big ups to many of the brewers over there for helping me and suggesting ways for me to use the equipment that I had and apply it to LO brewing.  I have seen a lot of bickering on many boards over the LO vs. non-LO brewers and while I don't care for it, I don't necessarily want to see them banned either.  My opinion is that they brought information forward for others to either accept or reject.  I knew people who criticized the LO information without even trying any of it and that part I don't get.

Right on, Ken!  I agree with you 100%.  I have learned from all facets of the hobby (it's a hobby, remember?) and we should all be accepting of those who have new ideas or processes.
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2020, 08:44:56 am »
Right on, Ken!  I agree with you 100%.  I have learned from all facets of the hobby (it's a hobby, remember?) and we should all be accepting of those who have new ideas or processes.
I understand that some brewers are crazy-busy and have 3 kids and their brewing time is limited and maybe they just want to crank out a batch.  Good.  Fine.  I used to be that way but I'm older now and my kids are either in college or have already graduated and more of my time is my own now.  So I have time to look at things closer, consider various viewpoints and also test them out to see what the results are.  That's just the road that I chose for myself.  For those who tried some of it and decided it wasn't for them, no worries.  For those who tried it and now find themselves excited to brew with new purpose and new ideas, that's outstanding.  For me there was one specific reason that the LO concepts were tinged with dread... one specific reason and one specific person who made that concept so tough to accept and embrace.  But you can look past that and work around it if you're curious enough.  And in the end there might be better beer.  Maybe.   
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline BrewBama

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Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2020, 08:50:30 am »
From what I can tell is that they have all either been banned or forced to leave for "dissenting views". ...
... while I don't care for it, I don't necessarily want to see them banned ...

I think the Low Ox people mostly left of their own accord, save a couple notable exceptions...

Was anyone actually banned from this site?  For what?


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« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 08:54:35 am by BrewBama »

Offline Sanatorium

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Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2020, 09:07:21 am »
From what I can tell is that they have all either been banned or forced to leave for "dissenting views". ...
... while I don't care for it, I don't necessarily want to see them banned ...

I think the Low Ox people mostly left of their own accord, save a couple notable exceptions...

Was anyone actually banned from this site?  For what?


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Backstory:
One of your previous posts, was you speaking bad about the low oxygen folks. Being an investigative reporter I went and searched your claims, I couldn't find anything to back them up, so I emailed them though their website. I asked for their side of the story, which is really investigative reporting 101.

I got a reply and a screenshot showing the bannings from the AHA, and an explanation that the way it was shown here, is that they are now a "guest" to make it look like they left on their own.

I am in no way shape or form biased or fully informed in any matters to this affair, but it certainly seems there is much more than what meets the eye.

Anecdotally, if low oxygen brewing or any of those buzzwords are brought up it turns into off topic rants, and rages. Which seems uncomfortably tribal.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 09:10:07 am by Sanatorium »