Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...  (Read 25964 times)

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27172
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2020, 10:41:23 am »
I'll try the sharp knife trick.  Another thought is to weigh a tablet and then crush the entire bag into dust and then just use half the weight of a tablet and call it a day.  :P

I've done that and just guessed at half.  Close enough.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline ExtractDoug

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Keeping it simple and consistent with extract
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2020, 12:29:51 pm »
Another way to get nearly no trub is to use a pre-hopped extract can, like what Muntons or Coopers make.  Then use a low-flocculating yeast, and you'll get nearly every drop!


Offline Richard

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1027
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2020, 01:52:43 pm »
Kick brand carageenan tablets say they are sized so you use one per 5 gallon batch. I got tired of trying to cut the Whirlflocs in half so I switched to Kick. Slightly more expensive, but a whole lot easier.
Original Gravity - that would be Newton's

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2368
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2020, 02:06:14 pm »
Kick brand carageenan tablets say they are sized so you use one per 5 gallon batch. I got tired of trying to cut the Whirlflocs in half so I switched to Kick. Slightly more expensive, but a whole lot easier.
Mmm, never heard of these.  I'll check it out.  Thanks. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline erockrph

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7814
  • Chepachet, RI
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2020, 09:52:34 am »
I thought of this thread when I was brewing my last batch. First off, I think you might actually be better off skipping the whirlfloc if you want a more compact trub layer. It may pull more out of suspension, but carrageenan products lead to a fluffier trub in both the kettle and fermenter.

This was also the first time I used the majority of my boil hops as Cryo hops (I've only used them for dry hopping until now), and I was amazed at how small and compact my hop trub was. It was a very fine, silty layer that clung to the bottom of the kettle. I'm liking this product more and more every time I use it.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: November 07, 2020, 11:09:07 am by erockrph »
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline charlie

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2020, 06:23:48 pm »
Our first club president, who had a PhD in Microbiology, said don't worry about trub. Trub is yeast food!

Nuff said,
Charlie
Yes officer, I know that I smell like beer. I'm not drinking it, I'm wearing it!

Offline RC

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 669
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2020, 08:34:59 pm »
Our first club president, who had a PhD in Microbiology, said don't worry about trub. Trub is yeast food!

Nuff said,
Charlie

I happen to agree with this club president’s advice, but I nonetheless suggest not taking any homebrewer’s words—even if that homebrewer has an advanced degree in microbiology—as dogma until you have made your own empirical observations, based on your own system and processes.

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2368
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2020, 07:51:28 am »
I brewed yesterday and used the hop spider, a half-tablet of whirfloc, a flow-reducer and even a stainless 'scrubby' on the end of my cane.  I was able to get almost 100% clear wort into the fermenter and I think I have found my sweet spot.  The small amount of trub I'm getting is not concerning me.  I honestly don't remember why the LO guys were preaching "no trub" but I know that clarity was one area where it came up.  I have heard that trub is good for yeast and I have seen "truby wort" produce clear beer as well.  If I fine with a gel solution (obviously non-LO) then the trub is really a non-issue. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline Sanatorium

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2020, 08:08:28 am »
I honestly don't remember why the LO guys were preaching "no trub" but I know that clarity was one area where it came up. 

Due to the polarization of Low Oxygen Brewing and this forum, I have spent quite a bit of time over there to sort out exactly why (I can't understand why as of yet). Everything they "preach" as you put it, seems to be succinctly laid out, backed with scientific research. This topic is there as well.

https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/trub-seperation-why-and-how/

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2368
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2020, 10:54:25 am »
I honestly don't remember why the LO guys were preaching "no trub" but I know that clarity was one area where it came up. 

Due to the polarization of Low Oxygen Brewing and this forum, I have spent quite a bit of time over there to sort out exactly why (I can't understand why as of yet). Everything they "preach" as you put it, seems to be succinctly laid out, backed with scientific research. This topic is there as well.

https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/trub-seperation-why-and-how/
Thanks for posting that.  The concept of "some amount of trub is okay because it benefits yeast but try to keep it down because there is a downside to trub in the fermenter" is very much in line with what I have been doing.  My process and equipment is not going to allow for 100% crystal clear wort so I have to work with what I have but my trub pickup has been very minimal with some recent steps and the beers have been excellent, IMO.  I do not experience "staling" that I know of and I feel like my LO processes have been decent.  I might describe it as "lower-O2" which I realize is not really a thing.  I have not experienced noticeable oxidation since starting these steps. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline fredthecat

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1945
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2020, 11:39:31 am »
I honestly don't remember why the LO guys were preaching "no trub" but I know that clarity was one area where it came up. 

Due to the polarization of Low Oxygen Brewing and this forum, I have spent quite a bit of time over there to sort out exactly why (I can't understand why as of yet). Everything they "preach" as you put it, seems to be succinctly laid out, backed with scientific research. This topic is there as well.

https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/trub-seperation-why-and-how/


my take on this whole LO thing is:

-Yes, i believe them when they say that it produces extremely high quality beer in some types of beer.

-No, I am not willing to spend thousands of dollars on more equipment and many many hours of time setting up the details.

I am really quite happy with my beer system as is.


I honestly don't remember why the LO guys were preaching "no trub" but I know that clarity was one area where it came up. 

Due to the polarization of Low Oxygen Brewing and this forum, I have spent quite a bit of time over there to sort out exactly why (I can't understand why as of yet). Everything they "preach" as you put it, seems to be succinctly laid out, backed with scientific research. This topic is there as well.

https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/trub-seperation-why-and-how/
Thanks for posting that.  The concept of "some amount of trub is okay because it benefits yeast but try to keep it down because there is a downside to trub in the fermenter" is very much in line with what I have been doing.  My process and equipment is not going to allow for 100% crystal clear wort so I have to work with what I have but my trub pickup has been very minimal with some recent steps and the beers have been excellent, IMO.  I do not experience "staling" that I know of and I feel like my LO processes have been decent.  I might describe it as "lower-O2" which I realize is not really a thing.  I have not experienced noticeable oxidation since starting these steps.

lower-O2 is a thing im sure. i am always considering ways to reduce splashing and oxygen on the hot side within what I consider reasonable time/effort/cost.

I just don't want to spend the money on basically creating a highly advanced small factory in my basement, as at that point I really might as well just buy whatever beer I want/import it. it would be the same expense, maybe less.

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2368
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2020, 11:59:22 am »
I honestly don't remember why the LO guys were preaching "no trub" but I know that clarity was one area where it came up. 

Due to the polarization of Low Oxygen Brewing and this forum, I have spent quite a bit of time over there to sort out exactly why (I can't understand why as of yet). Everything they "preach" as you put it, seems to be succinctly laid out, backed with scientific research. This topic is there as well.

https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/trub-seperation-why-and-how/


my take on this whole LO thing is:

-Yes, i believe them when they say that it produces extremely high quality beer in some types of beer.

-No, I am not willing to spend thousands of dollars on more equipment and many many hours of time setting up the details.

I am really quite happy with my beer system as is.


I honestly don't remember why the LO guys were preaching "no trub" but I know that clarity was one area where it came up. 

Due to the polarization of Low Oxygen Brewing and this forum, I have spent quite a bit of time over there to sort out exactly why (I can't understand why as of yet). Everything they "preach" as you put it, seems to be succinctly laid out, backed with scientific research. This topic is there as well.

https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/trub-seperation-why-and-how/
Thanks for posting that.  The concept of "some amount of trub is okay because it benefits yeast but try to keep it down because there is a downside to trub in the fermenter" is very much in line with what I have been doing.  My process and equipment is not going to allow for 100% crystal clear wort so I have to work with what I have but my trub pickup has been very minimal with some recent steps and the beers have been excellent, IMO.  I do not experience "staling" that I know of and I feel like my LO processes have been decent.  I might describe it as "lower-O2" which I realize is not really a thing.  I have not experienced noticeable oxidation since starting these steps.

lower-O2 is a thing im sure. i am always considering ways to reduce splashing and oxygen on the hot side within what I consider reasonable time/effort/cost.

I just don't want to spend the money on basically creating a highly advanced small factory in my basement, as at that point I really might as well just buy whatever beer I want/import it. it would be the same expense, maybe less.
I hear you.  The #1 priority is that people are enjoying the hobby and liking their beer.  If for some reason someone starts looking at ways to improve their beer, it's always good to have some options and look at ways that others brew.  I have always tried very hard to stay out of the polarization aspect of this and just focus on what can help me make better beer.  That said, I made some process mods and some slight ingredient mods without spending any real money.  That's saying something because my equipment is cheap and old-school.  Using trifecta mix, de-oxing the water with yeast + sugar, naturally purging kegs with the CO2 being created naturally during fermentation, closed transfers, using a mash cap, etc. do not really cost anything.  Would the hardcore low-O2 guys see my brewing process as righteous?  No, probably not.  But it was a few steps in the right direction for me and I'm enjoying those new steps and also enjoying the beer. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline rungdalek

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2020, 12:45:56 pm »
Letting the break materials (trub) settle is a matter of patience.

Along with the right pH, whirlpool, fining, etc...

Maybe a centrifuge would help speed it up.

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2368
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2020, 01:06:40 pm »
Letting the break materials (trub) settle is a matter of patience.

Along with the right pH, whirlpool, fining, etc...

Maybe a centrifuge would help speed it up.
I agree that patience helps.  Now I chill and then set the kettle in a sink with ice and water to chill further.  I wait anywhere from 30-45 minutes before I send the wort to the fermenter.  The more compact the trub pile is, the less likely it is to get mobile. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6100
Attempting to get less trub in the fermenter...
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2020, 09:38:03 am »
I honestly don't remember why the LO guys were [discussing] “no trub" but I know that clarity was one area where it came up. 

...

Everything ...seems to be succinctly laid out, backed with scientific research. This topic is there as well.

https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/trub-seperation-why-and-how/


I’ve heard research on both sides (for example the yeast food comment above is often cited). It must depend on which scientist we ask.

...but I like clear beer in the BK and FV because I believe proteins removed in the MLT and/or BK can’t cause haze later. Plus, when proteins are removed before fermentation, they are unavailable to yeast in the production of fusel alcohol.  Not sure of the science behind those statements but I don’t have to know how to build a watch to tell time. I don’t even know if they’re true but it works for me.

So, I mash via RIMS using a Brew Bag filtered MLT for crystal clear wort in the BK and cool as quickly as possible after the boil. I then drain the wort off as much of the hot and cold break, and hop matter as I can as mentioned in my post above.

I have adjusted my mash volume so I’ll get a known pre boil volume, I use the same boil time at the same heat setting for a known boil off, and I plan recipes all to end up with an anticipated OG and allowing for the loss to trüb I know I’ll take.

My brew house efficiency number probably suffers because of this but I like the outcome so I’m OK with using about a pound more of base malt and a gal more of water than if I didn’t do these things.

I might describe it as "lower-O2" which I realize is not really a thing.  I have not experienced noticeable oxidation since starting these steps.

I would say I am am also a ‘lower-O2’ brewer vs full on Low Oxygen brewer.  I try to employ techniques I’ve learned but don’t sweat the parts I don’t adhere to. 

...  Would the hardcore low-O2 guys see my brewing process as righteous?  No, probably not.  But it was a few steps in the right direction for me and I'm enjoying those new steps and also enjoying the beer.

+1


Due to the polarization of Low Oxygen Brewing and this forum, ...

The polarization has zero to do with the techniques of Low Oxygen Brewing. As mentioned in this thread and elsewhere throughout this forum, many brewers here use many, if not all, the Low Oxygen Brewing techniques we’ve learned from very smart brewers in the community.

The polarization lies squarely with the personalities involved. It always has. I am OK in a world where everyone doesn’t agree with me. Some folks don’t seem to be able to handle that.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 10:45:16 am by BrewBama »