Author Topic: Safale S-04  (Read 4459 times)

Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2020, 03:07:17 PM »


I fermented it at 63 many times .  Still bready.  I also despise Notty.


It's comforting to know that as many things that change through the years some things stay the same.

What's wrong with bready? And what does bready taste like? Bread dough? Fresh baked bread?

And that's why my temp is 56 F.
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Offline denny

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2020, 03:15:08 PM »
Wyeast states that the low end for 1007 is 55F.  My choices for temp are experience driven.
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2020, 05:06:20 PM »
When I think "bready," I think the yeasty flavor that fresh bread can have.

Offline denny

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2020, 05:21:51 PM »
When I think "bready," I think the yeasty flavor that fresh bread can have.

Yeah, I think that's a good description.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2020, 06:01:00 PM »
When I think "bready," I think the yeasty flavor that fresh bread can have.

Are there commercial examples that would exhibit this flavor?

Most people I know really like the taste of fresh baked bread. Especially my late mother's home made dinner rolls. Not sure I have ever experienced this in any beer.

Stand by...I'll be the first one to let you know how this S-04 performed!
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Offline BrewBama

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Safale S-04
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2020, 06:13:08 PM »
...  My choices for temp are experience driven.

Sounds like Skyler’s is as well. It’s cool how we all have our experiences and likes/dislikes.

I think anything outside the range listed on the package should be considered [artificially] low or high. In this case S-04 should be good to go anywhere between 53.6-77*F (ideally 59-68*F).  Skyler’s recommendation of “58-64*F” falls in that range nicely.

Fermentis states the higher of the two temperature ranges (i.e., 59-68F) on their packaging.  A fermentation temperature of 15C/59F is low for an ale yeast strain. I have never encountered any published data from a reputable source that states that this culture should be used at (53.6F). Fermenting at an internal temperature of 13.33C/56F tells me that a person does not like ale flavors. That is okay, but it sends the wrong message to new brewers. It tells brewers to pick a yeast culture out of convenience, not brewing performance.  We currently have more yeast cultures available to us than we have ever had. Liquid cultures are significantly easier to use than they were in the past.  Pitching a Wyeast smack pack directly into wort after it had swelled used to be a very iffy proposition with a lag times measured in days, not hours.  I am absolutely certain that there is a culture that will produce anyone's desired results in what are considered to be normal temperatures for a species or a family within a species.  For British ale cultures, we are talking 18 to 22C, maybe as low as 16C, internal.  British ale cultures are not meant to produce squeaky clean beer.  They are all pretty much estery to a point.  A few of the cultures I obtained directly from England were so estery and POF+ that they were almost indistinguishable from Belgian cultures.  We know that at least one Belgian culture originated in Great Britain. That culture was isolated from a bottle of McEwan's Scotch Ale by the famous brewing scientist Jean DeClerk.  It is used today to ferment Duvel.  Commercial brewing in Belgium only dates back to the mid-nineteenth century.  It dates back to much earlier in England, which gives credence to Northern Brewer's assertion that a lot of styles that we associate with Belgium more than likely have roots in England.

Admittedly you know exponentially more about yeast (and probably brewing in general) than I do.  ...and I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here except the two highlighted portions. The first: I quoted the temp range straight off the package. The second: I believe the mfr should be considered a reputable source.




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« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 06:53:09 PM by BrewBama »
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Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2020, 07:27:06 PM »
...  My choices for temp are experience driven.

Sounds like Skyler’s is as well. It’s cool how we all have our experiences and likes/dislikes.

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I think someone calls this a single data point.
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Offline denny

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2020, 07:29:12 PM »
...  My choices for temp are experience driven.

Sounds like Skyler’s is as well. It’s cool how we all have our experiences and likes/dislikes.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think someone calls this a single data point.

It is exactly.  And that and my experience all are I need for my own use.  I'm not out to prove anything.  Just make beer the way I like.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2020, 08:51:26 PM »

Admittedly you know exponentially more about yeast (and probably brewing in general) than I do.  ...and I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here except the two highlighted portions. The first: I quoted the temp range straight off the package. The second: I believe the mfr should be considered a reputable source.




If we look at the original fermentation temperature range, it is 53.6 to 77F, as you mentioned.  If 53.6 is the lower bound and 77 is the upper bound, then 53.6 + 77 / 2 = 65.3F is the mid-point of the temperature range. 

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2020, 08:59:51 PM »
When I think "bready," I think the yeasty flavor that fresh bread can have.

Are there commercial examples that would exhibit this flavor?

Most people I know really like the taste of fresh baked bread. Especially my late mother's home made dinner rolls. Not sure I have ever experienced this in any beer.

Stand by...I'll be the first one to let you know how this S-04 performed!

Bread made from pure culture yeast has a particular flavor of yeastiness that we associate with freshly baked bread that doesn't exist in sourdough and sometimes not with pure cultures made with a poolish rather than pouring dried yeast directly into the dough. I think of the dried yeast smell as like dried pasta in a cardboard box which kinda carries into the bread--like when you open the box of boxed mac and cheese.

S04/Nottingham exhibits it the most. London Ale 3 has it a little as do some other English strains. 
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Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2020, 09:10:08 PM »
Just a quick observation...the S-04 is working nicely at 56 F. In fact, the ferment is going on at a violent pace. Nearly continuous mini explosions coming out of my blow off.
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Offline Cliffs

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2020, 09:19:21 PM »
Just a quick observation...the S-04 is working nicely at 56 F. In fact, the ferment is going on at a violent pace. Nearly continuous mini explosions coming out of my blow off.

its an amazing fermenter, its brewhouse behavior is phenomenal. It's a shame I dont enjoy how it tastes :)

Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2020, 10:48:56 PM »
Just a quick observation...the S-04 is working nicely at 56 F. In fact, the ferment is going on at a violent pace. Nearly continuous mini explosions coming out of my blow off.

its an amazing fermenter, its brewhouse behavior is phenomenal. It's a shame I dont enjoy how it tastes :)

I just hope that the taste after fermenting at 56 F is to my liking, clean, not fruity or estery. And not like fresh baked bread...but the jury is out.
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Offline Megary

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2020, 12:12:11 AM »
I’ll be making a Brown Ale with S-04 this weekend. I’ve never noticed a distracting yeasty, bready thing from this yeast before, but maybe that’s because I’ve only ever used it in a Stout (a decision I made partly based on a recommendation from Denny).
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Maybe this Brown will leave a bit more room for S-04 to show itself.  Fermentation will probably be in the mid 60’s.

Offline purduekenn

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2020, 09:24:02 PM »
I like S-04 it should work well.