Author Topic: Safale S-04  (Read 2967 times)

Offline erockrph

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2020, 09:49:37 PM »
I’ll be making a Brown Ale with S-04 this weekend. I’ve never noticed a distracting yeasty, bready thing from this yeast before, but maybe that’s because I’ve only ever used it in a Stout (a decision I made partly based on a recommendation from Denny).
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Maybe this Brown will leave a bit more room for S-04 to show itself.  Fermentation will probably be in the mid 60’s.
I think it's one of things that once you taste it you always know its there. If you brew a fairly pale bitter with S-04 you'll probably pick it up. A brown ale may be alright. Good luck!
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Offline Megary

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2020, 11:01:38 PM »
I’ll be making a Brown Ale with S-04 this weekend. I’ve never noticed a distracting yeasty, bready thing from this yeast before, but maybe that’s because I’ve only ever used it in a Stout (a decision I made partly based on a recommendation from Denny).
Link

Maybe this Brown will leave a bit more room for S-04 to show itself.  Fermentation will probably be in the mid 60’s.
I think it's one of things that once you taste it you always know its there. If you brew a fairly pale bitter with S-04 you'll probably pick it up. A brown ale may be alright. Good luck!

Thanks.  Fermentation seems to be going well, quick start, temp peaked at about 65-66.  Sat around 62 for a few more days and then I bumped it to 68 where it currently sits.  It will be a few weeks before it’s ready to drink.

Offline Descardeci

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2020, 12:38:45 PM »
I’ll be making a Brown Ale with S-04 this weekend. I’ve never noticed a distracting yeasty, bready thing from this yeast before, but maybe that’s because I’ve only ever used it in a Stout (a decision I made partly based on a recommendation from Denny).
Link

Maybe this Brown will leave a bit more room for S-04 to show itself.  Fermentation will probably be in the mid 60’s.
I think it's one of things that once you taste it you always know its there. If you brew a fairly pale bitter with S-04 you'll probably pick it up. A brown ale may be alright. Good luck!
Erockrph I know this taste, get in some beer I did with S-04, the worst one was a scottish light, fermenter in low temps, get a lot of bready flavor was terrible, then I need to do a porter, did a starter and the yeast show no sign so throw away and run to the brewhouse to get some yeast, the only english strain there was S-04 so I get it and my hope for this beer was very low but the beer was awesome, so again I did try this yeast one more time and blow me away, did a IPA with OG of 1,061 and in 3 days the fermentetion was done, I don't know what happen but I guess is the low gravity and low temps, <62 F, that you get this bready flavor, did one british golden ale with the yeast after the IPA and nothing of this bready taste too, and got some fruit esther that was nice, this yeast get back in my house after the porter

Offline erockrph

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2020, 08:06:31 PM »
I’ll be making a Brown Ale with S-04 this weekend. I’ve never noticed a distracting yeasty, bready thing from this yeast before, but maybe that’s because I’ve only ever used it in a Stout (a decision I made partly based on a recommendation from Denny).
Link

Maybe this Brown will leave a bit more room for S-04 to show itself.  Fermentation will probably be in the mid 60’s.
I think it's one of things that once you taste it you always know its there. If you brew a fairly pale bitter with S-04 you'll probably pick it up. A brown ale may be alright. Good luck!
Erockrph I know this taste, get in some beer I did with S-04, the worst one was a scottish light, fermenter in low temps, get a lot of bready flavor was terrible, then I need to do a porter, did a starter and the yeast show no sign so throw away and run to the brewhouse to get some yeast, the only english strain there was S-04 so I get it and my hope for this beer was very low but the beer was awesome, so again I did try this yeast one more time and blow me away, did a IPA with OG of 1,061 and in 3 days the fermentetion was done, I don't know what happen but I guess is the low gravity and low temps, <62 F, that you get this bready flavor, did one british golden ale with the yeast after the IPA and nothing of this bready taste too, and got some fruit esther that was nice, this yeast get back in my house after the porter

Interesting. It almost makes me want to play with S-04 again. But I've tried it enough times that I don't think I'd risk a batch, especially since I always keep suitable alternatives for both clean ales, and English ales on hand.
Eric B.

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Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2020, 08:37:15 PM »
Update -

Just took a 2 oz sample of the London Porter with the S-04 yeast.

Surprisingly clean, with notes of coffee, caramel, and chocolate. No bread. None. Period.

It still has a ways to go, but is on track to being another fine Porter.

Do I like S-04 so far? Is the Pope Catholic?

Offline Descardeci

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2020, 12:26:31 PM »
I’ll be making a Brown Ale with S-04 this weekend. I’ve never noticed a distracting yeasty, bready thing from this yeast before, but maybe that’s because I’ve only ever used it in a Stout (a decision I made partly based on a recommendation from Denny).
Link

Maybe this Brown will leave a bit more room for S-04 to show itself.  Fermentation will probably be in the mid 60’s.
I think it's one of things that once you taste it you always know its there. If you brew a fairly pale bitter with S-04 you'll probably pick it up. A brown ale may be alright. Good luck!
Erockrph I know this taste, get in some beer I did with S-04, the worst one was a scottish light, fermenter in low temps, get a lot of bready flavor was terrible, then I need to do a porter, did a starter and the yeast show no sign so throw away and run to the brewhouse to get some yeast, the only english strain there was S-04 so I get it and my hope for this beer was very low but the beer was awesome, so again I did try this yeast one more time and blow me away, did a IPA with OG of 1,061 and in 3 days the fermentetion was done, I don't know what happen but I guess is the low gravity and low temps, <62 F, that you get this bready flavor, did one british golden ale with the yeast after the IPA and nothing of this bready taste too, and got some fruit esther that was nice, this yeast get back in my house after the porter

Interesting. It almost makes me want to play with S-04 again. But I've tried it enough times that I don't think I'd risk a batch, especially since I always keep suitable alternatives for both clean ales, and English ales on hand.

To be honest with you I wouldn't risk either, the use again of S-04 was a accident,a fortune one, but now that I have some nice yeast here in home I don't see my self going back, unless I want something quick and a little esther in the english side, but quick is the main reason, and I don't have so much rush this day

Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2020, 01:34:28 PM »
Let me reemphasize my previous post...the S-04 is performing flawlessly. Surprisingly clean, with absolutely ZERO off flavor, i.e., bready notes. None at all.
It is working so well that we will continue using S-04. In fact, the flavor profile is nearly the same as Wyeast London Ale. Yes, I have used both of these and did a side-by-side taste test.

My ferment temperature is 56 degrees, which is working just fine.

The Porter has another 10 days to go, and if there any changes in a negative way, you will be the second to know.

But that’s just my single data point.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 01:38:53 PM by TXFlyGuy »

Offline Iliff Ave

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2020, 02:15:02 PM »
Let me reemphasize my previous post...the S-04 is performing flawlessly. Surprisingly clean, with absolutely ZERO off flavor, i.e., bready notes. None at all.
It is working so well that we will continue using S-04. In fact, the flavor profile is nearly the same as Wyeast London Ale. Yes, I have used both of these and did a side-by-side taste test.

My ferment temperature is 56 degrees, which is working just fine.

The Porter has another 10 days to go, and if there any changes in a negative way, you will be the second to know.

But that’s just my single data point.

I like it too but other people don't. Just the way it is. I have had zero problems with it as long as I keep it cool enough.
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Offline denny

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2020, 03:08:18 PM »
I had a blonde ale last night that was made with S04.  It didn't make me want to run out and try S04, but I didn't find it as objectionable as I have found s04 beers in the past. Didn't taste any of the flavors I don't care for in S04.
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Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2020, 04:14:43 PM »
I had a blonde ale last night that was made with S04.  It didn't make me want to run out and try S04, but I didn't find it as objectionable as I have found s04 beers in the past. Didn't taste any of the flavors I don't care for in S04.

Could it be the brewing process, and the ingredients used rather than the yeast that makes you come to this conclusion? I'll wager that has a huge impact on the flavor, both good and bad.

Strangely in my side-by-side taste test of two London Porters, one with S-04, one with London Ale (Wyeast), both of them were equally good with no objectionable flavors. Both recipes were similar in the grain bill.

The ferment temps were different for these, with the London Ale working at 65-66 degrees, and the S-04 working at 56-57 degrees.

At this early stage, it is hard for me to fathom anyone calling this yeast's flavor profile "objectionable".

Disclaimer: The Porter with the S-04 yeast is still a work in progress. But it's close enough to allow me an honest sensory evaluation of the flavor profile.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 04:21:19 PM by TXFlyGuy »

Offline Descardeci

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2020, 04:43:16 PM »
I had a blonde ale last night that was made with S04.  It didn't make me want to run out and try S04, but I didn't find it as objectionable as I have found s04 beers in the past. Didn't taste any of the flavors I don't care for in S04.

For me this is the S-04, where I live there little option for dry yeast and if you want liquid you have to buy wait before, the homebrew shops don't have liquid in display, so it a cheap yeast, easy to use, not great not bad, and ferment really fast, some say nottingham is even faster but never used, for a beer that need a little esther and some english beers I would use, but now I'm making my yeast bank and don't see the reason to use this one anytime soon, but I don't know what happen the bready flavor that this yeast give just disappear

Offline skyler

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2020, 10:03:46 PM »
Just to chime in -- I have also used S-04 successfully at 56F, however it was decidedly slower at that temperature than my preferred 58F (took about as long as BRY-97 to get started). I fermented S-04 once at 68F (according to the reading on the liquid crystal thermometer stuck to the side of the plastic carboy) by accident and I finally tasted that tart bread thing that everyone is always talking about -- that was in a 100% Ekuanot pale ale and I actually ended up dumping the keg brewed with S-04 (the one with US-05 was fine). I think most homebrewers brew with it at or above the recommended range and experience the yeast at the warm end of the spectrum early on and decide how they feel about it at that point.

Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2020, 06:44:15 PM »
So here we are...16 days later.

OG - 10.57
SG - 10.20

ABV - 4.86%

While the beer actually tastes great (and is less filling), I am wondering if the yeast is finished working, or if it will attenuate even more as it's only at 64% now.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 07:40:45 PM by TXFlyGuy »

Offline BrewBama

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Safale S-04
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2020, 08:19:48 PM »
It depends on the wort composition. S-04 does not process maltotriose so it will finish at a higher FG. ...but that’s usually ~70-75% AA for my routine grist. If you had a bit of non fermentables you could be done.

...  My choices for temp are experience driven.

Sounds like Skyler’s is as well. It’s cool how we all have our experiences and likes/dislikes.

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I think someone calls this a single data point.

Actually, depending on how many times the process was documented using the same parameters, it could be many, many data points. We simply don’t know until Skyler tells us if it was one or how many data points.

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« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 08:31:38 PM by BrewBama »
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Online Saccharomyces

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Re: Safale S-04
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2020, 09:02:23 PM »
It depends on the wort composition. S-04 does not process maltotriose so it will finish at a higher FG. ...but that’s usually ~70-75% AA for my routine grist. If you had a bit of non fermentables you could be done.


Are you certain about S-04 not being able to metabolize maltotriose at all?  I never achieved less than 75% AA the handful of times I used S-04 (it is one of the oldest usable dry strains).  Now, compare that AA level with that of a true maltotriose challenged yeast culture like Windsor.  In my humble opinion, TxFlyGuy's high final gravity has more to do with fermenting at 56F than the culture's ability to metabolize maltotriose.  At that temperature, yeast biomass growth was seriously hampered. An AA of 65% with S-04 screams something went wrong.