[rungdalek]

I'm not sure about consistency but I'd think it's rather difficult to maintain the same taste year after year with differences in ingredients....  e.g. Taste a Bud Light now vs. One from the very first batch.

lol dude, no offense but i would just search for discussions on this topic or do some reading first. "one from the very first batch"? lol what?

Take a can of Bud made today and compare it to one from the very first batch of the same recipe?  They're probably very similar.  Is that funny or difficult to comprehend?  Basic reading comprehension skills dude! lol!

I don't think any beer made today would bear much similarity to one made 150 years ago.  AFAIK, AB was not using adjuncts at that point.

That's not what I said!

A can of bud made today compared with a can from the first batch of the same recipe!  Whether the recipe used today is 5, 10, 20 whatever years old!

If I understood correctly,  I thought you meant a Bud brewed now vs. the way it tasted 150 years ago.  If that's not it, I don't get it...and that's OK.

When did the current recipe for bud begin to be brewed? 1990, 1956, 1972, 1890, etc... Fairly trivial stuff.

AFAIK, they started using adjuncts during or just after WWII.  That's probably when they started getting close to the way it is now.

Great!  Now you can understand my previous statements!

[hopfenundmalz]

i got confused by looking at the title, i thought you meant differences between homebrewing and macros. but macro vs macro, yeah of course.

without googling anything ie "What barley does coors/inbev/heineken whatever use?"

i know that a big limiting factor in making sake is that the commercial sake producers buy up all the special types of rice that are exclusively for sake production. theyre fairly standardized, yamada-nishiki for example will be a type, but then location it is produced in will change the price within that type. apparently if you cook it as food rice it doesn't taste good, but its qualities are for making alcohol.

so i know that ive heard that budweiser will contract harvests of barley year by year. based on my knowledge of budweiser they are probably choosing grains primarily for maximum efficiency/starch ratio over flavour.

i think one thing that would be interesting between breweries would be how they make their non-pale lager beers. guinness ships some kind of dark concentrate (unhopped?) around the world to breweries they contract to brew regional guinness. lol, im drawing a blank on any other non-pale lagers that are massive scale and international, though i know there are some. i cant even google it as popular craft beers come up and id assume they are simply brewed how we'd expect and then exported.


anyone know what types of hops budweiser uses now?

AB used to grow their own barley and hops.  I assume they still do.

They wanted to know the cost of the whole process, so they did it themselves re s. They didn't  grow all of their malt or hops but some. 

The hop farm in Bonners Ferry ID was not producing much for them a few years back. It has switched over to growing the popular new American varieties for the Craft breweries they purchased.

[hopfenundmalz]

Pabst doesn't  own a production brewery, though they are in negotiations to buy the recently closed Miller brewert in Irwindale CA.

[tommymorris]

The blog Shut up about Barclay Perkins is dedicated to historical macro beer discussion. There are lots of recipes.  You can see how recipes changed through time and see how different large breweries brewing the same styles had significantly different recipes.

British macros of course...

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/

[fredthecat]

The blog Shut up about Barclay Perkins is dedicated to historical macro beer discussion. There are lots of recipes.  You can see how recipes changed through time and see how different large breweries brewing the same styles had significantly different recipes.

British macros of course...

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/

yup, i love anything this guy says or writes, even though some individual posts can seem somewhat repetitive ie. grists of 19th century porters in X region or by X brewers.

i believe if you took macro produced malt liquor and simply added anywhere from 2 to 4 percent roasted malt to the grist the added cost would be minimal and the beer would improve greatly. but i guess that isnt what people want.

[Village Taphouse]

i promise you, i am not being dismissive. but im interested in your apparent seriousness regarding american (adjunct?) lager, what is the appeal? Why? Any interesting things youve learned about it?

I know it's not a focus of most homebrewers but personally I like the style of an "American Lager" and I brew them a lot in the spring and summer.  They're definitely not Bud Light but I will use pilsner malt (sometimes Euro and sometimes domestic), flaked corn, German hops (low... maybe 20-22 IBUs) and usually something like Diamond, 2124, etc.  It's a style like any other.  Some like it and some do not care for it.

I had heard many years ago that most of the big breweries like this use hop extract in their beers... easier to handle, easier to store, longer lifespan, more consistency, etc.  I had also heard (this was mentioned earlier) that they will brew to a higher gravity and then dilute with water to get to their desired ABV.  They also blend batches for better consistency.  I consider most of these places to be more of a factory than a brewery and the people inside to be more "chemists" than brewers but I don't mean that in a bad way.  To make that consistent product over and over with natural products and have such a deep fan base of people... not easy to do.

[HighVoltageMan!]

Budweiser has their own malting plants where they produce a good percentage of the malt they use. I know for a fact that they also buy malt from Rahr regularly.

Are you trying to brew an American lager or just curious? Some say the differences between Miller/Bud/Coors and Pabst are subtle, but to me each beer stands out. Miller has a sulphur component that stands out, Bud and Coors are closer, both have a red apple character, Pabst has more malt character and is the cleanest of all of them. Now others may disagree with this, but buy a six pack of each in cans as fresh as you can get them and do a side by side. It's remarkable how different each of these beers are, at least to me.

I brew American lager and compete with it. I'm usually pretty successful. The best advice I can give is to try brewing it with both American yeast such as 2007 and then try with German yeast like 34/70 or even 833. I prefer German yeast. If hold back on the malt character and use 833, it comes out like Pabst. The best malt I've found for American lager is Rahr Premium Pilsner.

That's my 2 cents

i promise you, i am not being dismissive. but im interested in your apparent seriousness regarding american (adjunct?) lager, what is the appeal? Why? Any interesting things youve learned about it?

I first brewed it for my wife, she bet me I couldn’t brew a beer she liked. I’m an experienced brewer and I took her up on that bet.

It is one of the hardest beers to brew, only a Helles or Pilsner are as tough to get it right, at least to me Like all beers, it easy to brew, but to get it right is tough. I started competing with it after about 2 years of trying. I started winning regularly with it. It led me into  German beers and has made me a better brewer. I brew mostly lagers now.

A decent American lager is really quite good. Over the years the I learned the judges prefer a very clean malt profile, very few esters and crisp finish. It wins every time and it’s delicious. No apple or sulfur, I use German yeast to reduce the apple character.

As far as when brewers started adding adjuncts, that goes back over 120 years. The German brewers added rice and corn to the malt bill to mimic the two row available in Europe. In North American only 6 row was widely available. 6 row had more diastatic power than 2 row and they took advantage of it to lighten the flavor of 6 row.

[hopfenundmalz]

The American malts had high protein levels, resulting in haze. The use of corn or rice diluted the protein to a level where haze was not a problem.

[Village Taphouse]

The American malts had high protein levels, resulting in haze. The use of corn or rice diluted the protein to a level where haze was not a problem.

Do we know if they introduced corn or rice because it was cheaper?  That's what I had always heard. 

[rungdalek]

I think there's a lot truth here but also a lot of hearsay or maybe things that were true at one time but no longer are.  It would be interesting to know the standards each batch must meet in order to get bottled and what is done to measure and make the beer conform to that standard.

[rungdalek]

Budweiser has their own malting plants where they produce a good percentage of the malt they use. I know for a fact that they also buy malt from Rahr regularly.

Are you trying to brew an American lager or just curious? Some say the differences between Miller/Bud/Coors and Pabst are subtle, but to me each beer stands out. Miller has a sulphur component that stands out, Bud and Coors are closer, both have a red apple character, Pabst has more malt character and is the cleanest of all of them. Now others may disagree with this, but buy a six pack of each in cans as fresh as you can get them and do a side by side. It's remarkable how different each of these beers are, at least to me.

I brew American lager and compete with it. I'm usually pretty successful. The best advice I can give is to try brewing it with both American yeast such as 2007 and then try with German yeast like 34/70 or even 833. I prefer German yeast. If hold back on the malt character and use 833, it comes out like Pabst. The best malt I've found for American lager is Rahr Premium Pilsner.

That's my 2 cents

i promise you, i am not being dismissive. but im interested in your apparent seriousness regarding american (adjunct?) lager, what is the appeal? Why? Any interesting things youve learned about it?

I first brewed it for my wife, she bet me I couldn’t brew a beer she liked. I’m an experienced brewer and I took her up on that bet.

It is one of the hardest beers to brew, only a Helles or Pilsner are as tough to get it right, at least to me Like all beers, it easy to brew, but to get it right is tough. I started competing with it after about 2 years of trying. I started winning regularly with it. It led me into  German beers and has made me a better brewer. I brew mostly lagers now.

A decent American lager is really quite good. Over the years the I learned the judges prefer a very clean malt profile, very few esters and crisp finish. It wins every time and it’s delicious. No apple or sulfur, I use German yeast to reduce the apple character.

As far as when brewers started adding adjuncts, that goes back over 120 years. The German brewers added rice and corn to the malt bill to mimic the two row available in Europe. In North American only 6 row was widely available. 6 row had more diastatic power than 2 row and they took advantage of it to lighten the flavor of 6 row.

Care to share your award winning recipes?

[tommymorris]

i promise you, i am not being dismissive. but im interested in your apparent seriousness regarding american (adjunct?) lager, what is the appeal? Why? Any interesting things youve learned about it?

I know it's not a focus of most homebrewers but personally I like the style of an "American Lager" and I brew them a lot in the spring and summer.  They're definitely not Bud Light but I will use pilsner malt (sometimes Euro and sometimes domestic), flaked corn, German hops (low... maybe 20-22 IBUs) and usually something like Diamond, 2124, etc.  It's a style like any other.  Some like it and some do not care for it.

I had heard many years ago that most of the big breweries like this use hop extract in their beers... easier to handle, easier to store, longer lifespan, more consistency, etc.  I had also heard (this was mentioned earlier) that they will brew to a higher gravity and then dilute with water to get to their desired ABV.  They also blend batches for better consistency.  I consider most of these places to be more of a factory than a brewery and the people inside to be more "chemists" than brewers but I don't mean that in a bad way.  To make that consistent product over and over with natural products and have such a deep fan base of people... not easy to do.

My favorite beer to brew right now is “9 Pound Pils”.  The grist is 7 lbs base malt, 2 lbs flaked corn to 1050-ish OG.  I have tried it with Diamond, 34/70, and Mexican Lager yeast. So far my favorite is Mexican lager yeast.  I have tried Pilsner Malt and 6-row. Both are excellent. I think of it as a CAP. I can drink it everyday. My current batch reminds me of PBR’s big brother.

PS. 9 pounds is the max capacity of my Picobrew and the little 2.5 gallon brewery puts out 5 gallons of this recipe at a time. That’s another reason I like it.

[Village Taphouse]

My favorite beer to brew right now is “9 Pound Pils”.  The grist is 7 lbs base malt, 2 lbs flaked corn to 1050-ish OG.  I have tried it with Diamond, 34/70, and Mexican Lager yeast. So far my favorite is Mexican lager yeast.  I have tried Pilsner Malt and 6-row. Both are excellent. I think of it as a CAP. I can drink it everyday. My current batch reminds me of PBR’s big brother.

PS. 9 pounds is the max capacity of my Picobrew and the little 2.5 gallon brewery puts out 5 gallons of this recipe at a time. That’s another reason I like it.

You're preaching to the choir on the Mexican Lager yeast.  I made an unbelievable 10-12 five-gallon batches with 940 in 2020.  I know Omega has a Mexican Lager strain now too but not sure if it's 940 or not.  I feel like 940 is Modelo's yeast. 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Budweiser has their own malting plants where they produce a good percentage of the malt they use. I know for a fact that they also buy malt from Rahr regularly.

Are you trying to brew an American lager or just curious? Some say the differences between Miller/Bud/Coors and Pabst are subtle, but to me each beer stands out. Miller has a sulphur component that stands out, Bud and Coors are closer, both have a red apple character, Pabst has more malt character and is the cleanest of all of them. Now others may disagree with this, but buy a six pack of each in cans as fresh as you can get them and do a side by side. It's remarkable how different each of these beers are, at least to me.

I brew American lager and compete with it. I'm usually pretty successful. The best advice I can give is to try brewing it with both American yeast such as 2007 and then try with German yeast like 34/70 or even 833. I prefer German yeast. If hold back on the malt character and use 833, it comes out like Pabst. The best malt I've found for American lager is Rahr Premium Pilsner.

That's my 2 cents

i promise you, i am not being dismissive. but im interested in your apparent seriousness regarding american (adjunct?) lager, what is the appeal? Why? Any interesting things youve learned about it?

I first brewed it for my wife, she bet me I couldn’t brew a beer she liked. I’m an experienced brewer and I took her up on that bet.

It is one of the hardest beers to brew, only a Helles or Pilsner are as tough to get it right, at least to me Like all beers, it easy to brew, but to get it right is tough. I started competing with it after about 2 years of trying. I started winning regularly with it. It led me into  German beers and has made me a better brewer. I brew mostly lagers now.

A decent American lager is really quite good. Over the years the I learned the judges prefer a very clean malt profile, very few esters and crisp finish. It wins every time and it’s delicious. No apple or sulfur, I use German yeast to reduce the apple character.

As far as when brewers started adding adjuncts, that goes back over 120 years. The German brewers added rice and corn to the malt bill to mimic the two row available in Europe. In North American only 6 row was widely available. 6 row had more diastatic power than 2 row and they took advantage of it to lighten the flavor of 6 row.

Care to share your award winning recipes?

I brew this beer with 34/70 and Minute Rice. Minute Rice has a longer shelf life than flaked rice and it's doesn't need a cereal mash. 34/70 can be extremely clean depend on the fermentation method.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/216382/stardard-american-lager-ii

[fredthecat]

Budweiser has their own malting plants where they produce a good percentage of the malt they use. I know for a fact that they also buy malt from Rahr regularly.

Are you trying to brew an American lager or just curious? Some say the differences between Miller/Bud/Coors and Pabst are subtle, but to me each beer stands out. Miller has a sulphur component that stands out, Bud and Coors are closer, both have a red apple character, Pabst has more malt character and is the cleanest of all of them. Now others may disagree with this, but buy a six pack of each in cans as fresh as you can get them and do a side by side. It's remarkable how different each of these beers are, at least to me.

I brew American lager and compete with it. I'm usually pretty successful. The best advice I can give is to try brewing it with both American yeast such as 2007 and then try with German yeast like 34/70 or even 833. I prefer German yeast. If hold back on the malt character and use 833, it comes out like Pabst. The best malt I've found for American lager is Rahr Premium Pilsner.

That's my 2 cents

i promise you, i am not being dismissive. but im interested in your apparent seriousness regarding american (adjunct?) lager, what is the appeal? Why? Any interesting things youve learned about it?

I first brewed it for my wife, she bet me I couldn’t brew a beer she liked. I’m an experienced brewer and I took her up on that bet.

It is one of the hardest beers to brew, only a Helles or Pilsner are as tough to get it right, at least to me Like all beers, it easy to brew, but to get it right is tough. I started competing with it after about 2 years of trying. I started winning regularly with it. It led me into  German beers and has made me a better brewer. I brew mostly lagers now.

A decent American lager is really quite good. Over the years the I learned the judges prefer a very clean malt profile, very few esters and crisp finish. It wins every time and it’s delicious. No apple or sulfur, I use German yeast to reduce the apple character.

As far as when brewers started adding adjuncts, that goes back over 120 years. The German brewers added rice and corn to the malt bill to mimic the two row available in Europe. In North American only 6 row was widely available. 6 row had more diastatic power than 2 row and they took advantage of it to lighten the flavor of 6 row.

interesting to note what judges want, just like taking an essay test, that is the goal, rather than to do exactly what you want. i think i can imagine what you mean about clean malt profile, just slightly different lager yeast. what people say about the mexican lager yeast is interesting, but likely it will be a while before i try it.

Care to share your award winning recipes?

i didnt reply to your early snarkier posts, that again, made no sense. how would i compare a batch made 150 years ago with one today? after seeing your reply, you seem to have meant batches made only 20 or 30 years ago. uhh i dont think anyone has cases of bud aging in their cellar. and why would i even care anyway? its garbage beer made for profit, they dont give a crap about the taste as long as it isnt entirely horrible tasting. the specifics of these macro brews are basically maximizing profit and efficiency, what exactly could you apply to homebrewing from this?

you sound like a complete tool in the way you have interacted with everyone in this thread. ie. above quote.