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Author Topic: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?  (Read 5706 times)

Offline tommymorris

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2020, 06:18:17 pm »
Now wait a minute... Lone Star is head and shoulders above everything else on that list. . (Being from Tx I have to take a stand for the Nat’l beer of Tx!).

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I am also from TX. But, I can’t defend Lone Star. I can defend Shiner Bock. We drank a lot of that at the Dixie Chicken.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2020, 06:42:59 pm »
The question then becomes what comprises a macro lager recipe or specification?  e.x. Homebrewers don't or can't have specs for their extract - they get what they get or do they....?
I don't know the answer to that.  Some amount of grain, some amount of adjunct, hop extract for consistency and predictability (although someone mentioned that AB uses actual hops so there's that), possibly sugar if they needed the beer to finish dry, I'm sure they put A LOT of effort into yeast maintenance/management, brew it to a higher gravity and then dilute with water to the ABV they want.  I'm sure each one is quite different.  I'm sure it does not look much like our brewdays at home but then again some parts might look very similar.  I do know people who have gone on brewery tours at Coors and AB.  If you're close to one or are visiting a town with a big brewery, a tour would probably be pretty cool.  I know I would learn some things.
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline fredthecat

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2020, 08:51:21 pm »
Catching up on a few things:
  • Adjunct usage seems to have really stepped up post-Prohibition and WWII here in the US. Desire for lighter, less "heavy" beers with drier finishes really pushed that change

  • The Van Nuys plant - the second largest in the company - produces over 250k BBLs of beer per month - that's more than all but the biggest craft breweries do in a year - and they do it with 6 brewers per shift - 2 each in the brewhouse, fermentation and packaging.

  • Nov. 5th - Pabst officially closed on the soon to be ex-MillerCoors plant in Irwindale for $150M

1. im basing this not on data, but intuition admittedly - but the public's "desire" may come second to or at least be eagerly encouraged because "drier" generally means cheaper. a reason why there are frequent trends in alcohol - "dry beers" in the 90s, low carb beers and hard seltzers now. less total ingredients for a similar amount of alcohol to make it a "drink".

2. yup, it is crazy, also considering the number of bud producing factories that exist around the world. hite or OB (cant remember) in gwangju korea got licenses to make hoegaarden and budweiser a long time ago, the budweiser was imho noticeably different than the north american one but the hoegaarden was always good and not really distinguishable from it in north america. factories of it in china at least im sure too.

3. i feel sad for these "homeless" old brews, that are just sort of contract brewed from place to place and year to year until their inevitable death.

One reason that people complained or tuned out of this style is that when you walk into a store (this was especially true many years ago) you just saw different brands of the same style.  Why?  Corona, Stella Artois, Miller, Rolling Rock, Sol, Coors, Bud, Landshark Lager, PBR, Lone Star, Red Stripe, Old Milwaukee, Modelo, Dos Equis, Keystone, Busch, Michelob Ultra.  Ugh.  Too much of the same style over and over again.  It's a style like any other but it's been done to death.

yup, the illusion of choice. i mean yes, they are slightly different, but there isnt even another real comparison of any product that are so generally similar yet differently branded. i dont know, potato chips? even they have much greater differences and there are some that are legitimate quality products, but every one of the ones listed above i would drink grudgingly if i was at a party with a good atmosphere and/or it was free. theyre nothing products, just marketing really. say red stripe, thats a good example - it isn't owned by a beer conglomerate, (apparently its company is owned by diageo admittedly though), it is a small player aiming at trendy/"true"/unique and it is still complete crap. i dont really have a strong interest in the style, i dont think i can be convinced to when a german helles or pilsner, an "original" pale lager is actually good. why not look at their systems instead? ie. warsteiner
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 10:44:03 pm by dbeechum »

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #63 on: November 18, 2020, 09:03:47 am »
yup, the illusion of choice. i mean yes, they are slightly different, but there isnt even another real comparison of any product that are so generally similar yet differently branded. i dont know, potato chips? even they have much greater differences and there are some that are legitimate quality products, but every one of the ones listed above i would drink grudgingly if i was at a party with a good atmosphere and/or it was free. theyre nothing products, just marketing really. say red stripe, thats a good example - it isn't owned by a beer conglomerate, (apparently its company is owned by diageo admittedly though), it is a small player aiming at trendy/"true"/unique and it is still complete crap. i dont really have a strong interest in the style, i dont think i can be convinced to when a german helles or pilsner, an "original" pale lager is actually good. why not look at their systems instead? ie. warsteiner
I have known many people who think that the light, fizzy lagers are the only real, true beer.  They turn their nose up at anything with color or flavor.  That's fine for them.  For anyone who has been to Munich or Prague, they know that there are delicious gold lagers out there that most of these macro-loving people would probably like.  My "American Lager", Helles and pilsners are hits with most mortal beer drinkers.  I even make a "Caribbean Lager"... pilsner that has less character like Briess Pilsen, some amount of flaked corn, one hop addition of something like Hallertau to get to 18-20 IBUs and then something like 2124 or 940.  When it's 90° and sunny... it's quite delicious. 
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline denny

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #64 on: November 18, 2020, 09:59:23 am »
FWIW corn and rice are more expensive that barley last I checked, so tired beers using them are not cheaper in terms of ingredients.
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Offline rungdalek

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #65 on: November 18, 2020, 05:46:35 pm »
I see there are many different forms of sugar derived from corn:

Dextrose (glucose)
High Fructose Corn Syrup (Different %'s of fructose vs glucose with lowest being about 55% close to the 50% of table sugar)
Corn Syrup (100% glucose)
Corn malt
Corn starch (not a sugar but could be mashed?)

Is there a taste difference between these types of corn sugars?  Do some yeasts react differently to fructose vs. Glucose?  Or is one used over the other due to cost?

AFAIK, rice is a starch but you can get brown rice syrup solids which is similar to high fructose corn syrup but is supposed to have a more neutral flavor.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 05:48:30 pm by rungdalek »

Offline erockrph

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #66 on: November 18, 2020, 08:11:23 pm »
I see there are many different forms of sugar derived from corn:

Dextrose (glucose)
High Fructose Corn Syrup (Different %'s of fructose vs glucose with lowest being about 55% close to the 50% of table sugar)
Corn Syrup (100% glucose)
Corn malt
Corn starch (not a sugar but could be mashed?)

Is there a taste difference between these types of corn sugars?  Do some yeasts react differently to fructose vs. Glucose?  Or is one used over the other due to cost?

AFAIK, rice is a starch but you can get brown rice syrup solids which is similar to high fructose corn syrup but is supposed to have a more neutral flavor.
I've never found a flavor difference in my finished beer from different neutral sugars like dextrose vs sucrose. I typically use flaked corn and at 20-30% of the grist I do pick up a bit of a sweet corn flavor. Personally, I rather enjoy it but YMMV

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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2020, 08:19:29 pm »
I've never found a flavor difference in my finished beer from different neutral sugars like dextrose vs sucrose. I typically use flaked corn and at 20-30% of the grist I do pick up a bit of a sweet corn flavor. Personally, I rather enjoy it but YMMV
Interesting.  I have never gone that high with flaked corn although I do use it in pale lagers occasionally.  I think I was always a little concerned even going to 20% because I thought it would be too 'corny'.  Is that a homebrew term?   ::)
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2020, 04:32:54 am »
With the calculators available to us, we certainly can dial in specs.  It’s just that our ingredients have to be reviewed closely to achieve the end results more consistently.  I simply don’t care to do that, because I’m close enough for homebrew without getting that detailed.  The science side of me wants to know how others do, however.  And some here are really into the lot analysis of a malt, as well as specs on hops and tweaking water very minutely - I say Cheers to them!
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Offline HighVoltageMan!

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2020, 05:43:50 am »
I see there are many different forms of sugar derived from corn:

Dextrose (glucose)
High Fructose Corn Syrup (Different %'s of fructose vs glucose with lowest being about 55% close to the 50% of table sugar)
Corn Syrup (100% glucose)
Corn malt
Corn starch (not a sugar but could be mashed?)

Is there a taste difference between these types of corn sugars?  Do some yeasts react differently to fructose vs. Glucose?  Or is one used over the other due to cost?

AFAIK, rice is a starch but you can get brown rice syrup solids which is similar to high fructose corn syrup but is supposed to have a more neutral flavor.
I've never found a flavor difference in my finished beer from different neutral sugars like dextrose vs sucrose. I typically use flaked corn and at 20-30% of the grist I do pick up a bit of a sweet corn flavor. Personally, I rather enjoy it but YMMV

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I use Minute Rice, it lends the beer a subtle sweetness that's really nice, it's still grainy with no corn. When I enter that same beer in a comp, the judges often comment a mild corn flavor. I wonder how much it just assumed that corn was used and they find it even when it's not there.

Offline rungdalek

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2020, 07:24:28 am »
I see there are many different forms of sugar derived from corn:

Dextrose (glucose)
High Fructose Corn Syrup (Different %'s of fructose vs glucose with lowest being about 55% close to the 50% of table sugar)
Corn Syrup (100% glucose)
Corn malt
Corn starch (not a sugar but could be mashed?)

Is there a taste difference between these types of corn sugars?  Do some yeasts react differently to fructose vs. Glucose?  Or is one used over the other due to cost?

AFAIK, rice is a starch but you can get brown rice syrup solids which is similar to high fructose corn syrup but is supposed to have a more neutral flavor.
I've never found a flavor difference in my finished beer from different neutral sugars like dextrose vs sucrose. I typically use flaked corn and at 20-30% of the grist I do pick up a bit of a sweet corn flavor. Personally, I rather enjoy it but YMMV

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Agree, I've never found any flavor differences when using glucose.

IMO even flaked corn at high percentages doesn't really give a corn flavor.

Would there be a science related reason to use a HFCS w/ 90% fructose / 10% glucose vs. a HFCS w/ 60% fructose / 40% glucose?  What would influence that decision?

Offline jeffy

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2020, 07:31:23 am »
I see there are many different forms of sugar derived from corn:

Dextrose (glucose)
High Fructose Corn Syrup (Different %'s of fructose vs glucose with lowest being about 55% close to the 50% of table sugar)
Corn Syrup (100% glucose)
Corn malt
Corn starch (not a sugar but could be mashed?)

Is there a taste difference between these types of corn sugars?  Do some yeasts react differently to fructose vs. Glucose?  Or is one used over the other due to cost?

AFAIK, rice is a starch but you can get brown rice syrup solids which is similar to high fructose corn syrup but is supposed to have a more neutral flavor.
I've never found a flavor difference in my finished beer from different neutral sugars like dextrose vs sucrose. I typically use flaked corn and at 20-30% of the grist I do pick up a bit of a sweet corn flavor. Personally, I rather enjoy it but YMMV

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Agree, I've never found any flavor differences when using glucose.

IMO even flaked corn at high percentages doesn't really give a corn flavor.

Would there be a science related reason to use a HFCS w/ 90% fructose / 10% glucose vs. a HFCS w/ 60% fructose / 40% glucose?  What would influence that decision?
I had a period of time when, due to nasal obstruction, I had very limited sense of smell.  During that time I was convinced I could tell the difference between different types of sugar.  I could tell if it was sucrose versus dextrose or maltose, but if it was from a fruit source, I couldn't tell if it was from pears or strawberries or whatever.  All that is smell, where sweetness is all flavor.  Not sure if I can do that now.
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Offline rungdalek

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #72 on: November 19, 2020, 07:37:18 am »

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #73 on: November 19, 2020, 08:08:42 am »
Just a quick search as to what's available on the market for HFCS (not the supermarket stuff w/ additives like vanilla):

Apparently HFCS is big business.

https://www.goldenbarrel.com/product-category/syrups/
https://www.cargill.com/food-beverage/na/corn-sweeteners
https://www.sweetenersplus.com/products/corn-sweeteners-plus
https://www.sugars.com/products-corn/high-fructose-corn-syrup_hfcs/

HFCS is a very big deal in the food manufacturing arena.  It is in, seemingly, everything anymore. 
Because of that, it is also a very large contributor to increasing obesity in the USA and around the world.

If we use it for brewing the yeast eat it and make ethanol.  When we eat it, we get fat.

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Offline fredthecat

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Re: What are some differences in macro beer recipes?
« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2020, 10:07:29 am »
Just a quick search as to what's available on the market for HFCS (not the supermarket stuff w/ additives like vanilla):

Apparently HFCS is big business.

https://www.goldenbarrel.com/product-category/syrups/
https://www.cargill.com/food-beverage/na/corn-sweeteners
https://www.sweetenersplus.com/products/corn-sweeteners-plus
https://www.sugars.com/products-corn/high-fructose-corn-syrup_hfcs/

yup, its actually funny when vegans complain about "the power that the meat industry holds over people", when really there is a massive competing force to encourage people to consume more grains in various forms.