[Matthew Dowdy]

I’m having a consistent issue with my beers coming out darker and tasting maltier than what is being suggested on the recipe. For the most part, I’m using recipe kits, using only the ingredients provided and following the recipe to the letter

On the most recent kit, it was a Northern Brewer Fresh Squished IPA Extract Kit. I’m using a propane burner, an 8 gallon kettle, and I start with about 5.5 gallons of water to end up with 5 gallons to go into the fermenter. I’m careful to get the water to 150 before putting in the grain sock, then turn off the heat for the prescribed soak time. Then I pull the grain sock out, hold it over the kettle until the dripping stops, then set the sock aside. I bring the water up to boil, then turn off the heat and stir in the extract (in this recipe a gold malt syrup). I turn on the heat again and bring it up to a slow boil and add all the hops according to the schedule.

Once I cool it and transfer it to the fermenter, it’s definitely darker than I expect. On this recipe, it was supposed to be a 10SRM, and it’s at least a 15. I pitch the yeast, do the dry hopping, and the fermentation all goes as planned. I bottle, bottle condition and pour, and I end up with a very malty beer, more like an amber, where the malt overpowers the hops. This has happened on every single batch I have done, regardless of the recipe. They all taste fine, it’s just that none of the beers have tasted like an IPA, they all taste like ambers.

My family and friends have all liked the beers. I like the taste, but it’s not the result I’m looking for. We’ve started naming the beers “Matt’s Happy Accident.”

What am I doing wrong in the cooking process that causes the beers to be so dark? I don’t think I’m burning anything. I turn the heat off and stir the malt extract, before turning the heat back on. In most of the recipes, I’ve used liquid malt extract, but on at least two, it’s been the powder. Same result everytime. Good beer, but not the sharp, hoppy IPA I’m aiming for.

[Cliffs]

extract can get old and darken.

[Village Taphouse]

Boiling the entire volume is a good idea.  If you were partial boiling I would point to that.  I agree with Cliffs that it could just be older extract.  When I was an extract brewer, my best beers were made with light, pale or extra-pale DME as opposed to LME.  I was able to get very pale beers.  Also, oxidation can darken beer but since you're using extract I'm not sure that would apply here since most of the color issues would occur at the mashing point which you're not doing.  Also, some pictures might be helpful so we can SEE your beers.  An IPA that is SRM 15 is very unusual. 

Another thought:  Could your source water be very high in pH?  If you boil with wort that is at a pH that is in the 6.0 to 6.5 range you will end up with a darker wort.  If your source water had a freakishly high pH you could try to knock that down with some lactic acid. 

[pete b]

I would be interested in what specialty malts you were steeping or mini mashing and how much. If the supplier gave you a darker crystal or something like that it could effect color or maltiness.
I second the advice to use extra light extract. Maybe try a similar recipe and use half the recommended extract and sub half extra light.
You could also use regular sugar in place of maybe 10% of the malt extract for lighter color and less malty, drier mouthfeel. that would be the easiest.

[denny]

Boiling the entire volume is a good idea.  If you were partial boiling I would point to that.  I agree with Cliffs that it could just be older extract.  When I was an extract brewer, my best beers were made with light, pale or extra-pale DME as opposed to LME.  I was able to get very pale beers.  Also, oxidation can darken beer but since you're using extract I'm not sure that would apply here since most of the color issues would occur at the mashing point which you're not doing.  Also, some pictures might be helpful so we can SEE your beers.  An IPA that is SRM 15 is very unusual. 

Another thought:  Could your source water be very high in pH?  If you boil with wort that is at a pH that is in the 6.0 to 6.5 range you will end up with a darker wort.  If your source water had a freakishly high pH you could try to knock that down with some lactic acid.

Good point.  For extract, distilled is the way to go.

[rungdalek]

Are you putting your hops in bags during the boil?  - Try boiling the hops free - w/o bags.

Use distilled or RO water - adding a teaspoon of gypsum and/or calcium chloride to these types of waters won't hurt even an extract beer.  You might just need more sulfate to give the hop bite you're looking for.

Check that the LME or DME is not out of date.

Looking at wort in a fermenter will make it appear darker than in a smaller glass.

Oxidation - what is your process after boiling/fermenting?  Try not to splash the wort/beer around after pitching the yeast.  Use a spring loaded bottle filler directly on a 3/8" auto siphon, skip the bottling bucket, and use carbonation drops.

Late extract addition - add the DME to start and then add the bulk of the LME about 10-15 mins before the end of the boil

https://www.midwestsupplies.com/blogs/bottled-knowledge/what-is-the-late-extract-addition-brewing-method

The beer you're making is *not* a light colored beer to begin with.

https://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/fresh-squished-ipa-extract-beer-kit

[Village Taphouse]

Boiling the entire volume is a good idea.  If you were partial boiling I would point to that.  I agree with Cliffs that it could just be older extract.  When I was an extract brewer, my best beers were made with light, pale or extra-pale DME as opposed to LME.  I was able to get very pale beers.  Also, oxidation can darken beer but since you're using extract I'm not sure that would apply here since most of the color issues would occur at the mashing point which you're not doing.  Also, some pictures might be helpful so we can SEE your beers.  An IPA that is SRM 15 is very unusual. 

Another thought:  Could your source water be very high in pH?  If you boil with wort that is at a pH that is in the 6.0 to 6.5 range you will end up with a darker wort.  If your source water had a freakishly high pH you could try to knock that down with some lactic acid.

Good point.  For extract, distilled is the way to go.

Agreed.  To the OP:  One simple test would be to get some spring water from the grocery store before you brew your next batch.  You don't necessarily need to use ALL spring water but I would go with at least HALF.  This could lower your pH (if that's the issue) and spring, RO and distilled are very soft and should help.  I am not saying this is the issue but it's one place I would look and it could cost you $5 or so.  If you brew a batch with spring water and the color stays pale, the culprit may be your water. 

[jeffy]

Another cause of wort darkening and dull, malty flavors is staling from oxygen exposure.  Although your description of the process doesn't look bad, make sure it doesn't involve a lot of splashing and unnecessary aeration.

[Bel Air Brewing]

This is perhaps the single biggest reason we switched to all grain. You then have total control over the color and every other issue. Not so with extract.

[Village Taphouse]

This is perhaps the single biggest reason we switched to all grain. You then have total control over the color and every other issue. Not so with extract.

To a point, yes but if you have good water and some other sorcery like pH control along with extra-light DME you have pretty good control over the color of your extract beers.  I brewed with extracts for an unbelievable FIVE YEARS.  Some of that was with kits when I was new and color was less in my control.  Eventually I started designing my own extract recipes using extra light DME exclusively and then steeping specialty malts based on the recipe.  I was able to make pale pilsners, kolsch, helles, etc. without issue.  If you brewed all-grain but whiffed on pH control or your water didn't want to cooperate you could still have issues.  Plus, when you're a new brewer it's good to get some of the other parts of the process down while still using extract.  When you start with all-grain you have a new group of things to consider... crush, water composition, mash technique, mash temp, recircing, running off, etc. 

[Matthew Dowdy]

Thanks for all the replies. If it happens the next time, I will take some pictures. I am basing my colors estimation on the beer in a pint glass, not in the fermenter. As far as water, I purchase gallons of spring water from the store, just the store brand. I've never done distilled water; somewhere along the line, I read (or thought I ready) that distilled was bad for beer brewing, that some minerals in the water were needed. But I've never used my tap water.

On the extract, I will pay attention to the dates. The grains and malt extract on the latest brew were:

MAILLARD MALTSTM SPECIALTY GRAIN
· 0.5 lbs Caramunich III
MAILLARD MALTS® EXTRACTS & OTHER FERMENTABLES
· 6 lbs Gold Malt Syrup
· 3.15 lbs Gold Malt Syrup (15 minute late addition)

I'm about ready to veer away from kits and go to the local brew shop, so I will look for extra light. I don't think I am overaerating once it goes into the fermenter. I transfer to the second fermenter with long enough tubing to avoid splashing, and I use a spring loaded bottle filler.

My next kit on hand is Dead Ringer, which I think is the clone for Bell's Two Hearted. Wish me luck!

[Village Taphouse]

Thanks for all the replies. If it happens the next time, I will take some pictures. I am basing my colors estimation on the beer in a pint glass, not in the fermenter. As far as water, I purchase gallons of spring water from the store, just the store brand. I've never done distilled water; somewhere along the line, I read (or thought I ready) that distilled was bad for beer brewing, that some minerals in the water were needed. But I've never used my tap water.

On the extract, I will pay attention to the dates. The grains and malt extract on the latest brew were:

MAILLARD MALTSTM SPECIALTY GRAIN
· 0.5 lbs Caramunich III
MAILLARD MALTS® EXTRACTS & OTHER FERMENTABLES
· 6 lbs Gold Malt Syrup
· 3.15 lbs Gold Malt Syrup (15 minute late addition)

I'm about ready to veer away from kits and go to the local brew shop, so I will look for extra light. I don't think I am overaerating once it goes into the fermenter. I transfer to the second fermenter with long enough tubing to avoid splashing, and I use a spring loaded bottle filler.

My next kit on hand is Dead Ringer, which I think is the clone for Bell's Two Hearted. Wish me luck!

Interesting.  You could probably scratch off water since you're already using spring water.  8 ounces of CaraMunich III could lend a good amount of color but not 15 SRM.  Also, distilled would not be good for all-grain brewing unless you were building your water.  With extract, distilled could work but spring water is perfectly acceptable as well.  At some point when you have the chance, envision a pale-colored beer whether it be a blonde ale, kolsch, pale ale or whatever.  Use extra-light DME and whatever specialty malts to steep.  For example, 8 ounces of Crystal 20 plus 5 pounds of extra-light DME (I'm making this up), do the full-volume boil, etc. and compare that color-wise to what you've been getting.  With the spring water pH should not be an issue although I'm not positive on that.  Doesn't distilled water have a pH of 7.0?  It would be good to know your pH prior to boiling to make sure it was al least down to 5.5.  Anything over 6.0 and your wort will darken as it boils.  Do you have a way to measure the pH of your wort preboil?

[Village Taphouse]

I just measured the pH of some Ice Mountain 100% Natural Spring water... 8.1.  I also just verified that my meter was calibrated by checking it against some 7.00 calibration solution and it measured 7.01 so it seems accurate.  8.1 is higher than I thought.  If eight ounces of CM III was dropped into water with a pH of 8.1 for steeping would there be any astringency from grains coming in contact with it?  Would there be a "color darkening" issue?  I assume that the grain would lower the pH of the water and that the LME or DME would also lower the pH as a boil was reached but I don't know by how much.  For 15+ years I have been focused on my all-grain mash and lowering the pH (my source water has a pH of 7.5 and 138ppm of bicarbonate so I am always trying to lower the pH) so I'm out of practice WRT extract brewing.  In my extract days I saw things suggesting that some amount of extract be added to steeping water to lower the pH but very little else on that topic. 

[denny]

I just measured the pH of some Ice Mountain 100% Natural Spring water... 8.1.  I also just verified that my meter was calibrated by checking it against some 7.00 calibration solution and it measured 7.01 so it seems accurate.  8.1 is higher than I thought.  If eight ounces of CM III was dropped into water with a pH of 8.1 for steeping would there be any astringency from grains coming in contact with it?  Would there be a "color darkening" issue?  I assume that the grain would lower the pH of the water and that the LME or DME would also lower the pH as a boil was reached but I don't know by how much.  For 15+ years I have been focused on my all-grain mash and lowering the pH (my source water has a pH of 7.5 and 138ppm of bicarbonate so I am always trying to lower the pH) so I'm out of practice WRT extract brewing.  In my extract days I saw things suggesting that some amount of extract be added to steeping water to lower the pH but very little else on that topic.

Without doing calculations I would think the CMIII would drop the pH a fair amount.

[majorvices]

I don't know why these kits come with Liquid Extract - it's always darker and always tastes oxidized to me. DME is the way to go. And even for DME you may want to sub out some sugar for the malt to get the beer drier and get rid of some of the extra malt-like character some extracts tend to have.

For extract distilled is the way to go since the minerals from the original extract manufacturer are bond up in during the extract. But that's not going to cause an issue with your color