[rungdalek]

Many, many products we use are repackaged from bulk. Grain, hops, minerals, additives, etc. I imagine DME is no exception.

It wouldn’t surprise me if one division of a mfr (Briess,  Munton’s, etc) receives bulk packages of DME from another division in the company and repackages it. Many online vendors (More Beer, Northern Brewer, etc) do it. ...the same way your LHBS does.

I would recommend they repackage under vacuum in airtight packaging to eliminate moisture so they don’t end up with solid DME bricks.


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True, but there's a difference between DME being re-packaged in a process controlled and inspected factility vs. some guy in the back room of an LHBS who is held to no standard but his own.

Let's keep in mind we are discussing a product that is generally going to be boiled for more than 10 minutes during it's use. 

I may be naïve but I don't generally assume the proprietor of my LHBS is doing anything willful to hurt their customers.  I assume they try to produce products that they would like to buy if the roles were reversed.  Could some level of contamination be introduced? Sure.  But being licensed and inspected doesn't prevent that either.  Don't ever look into hotdog and sausage production or restaurants if you don't want to see egregious violations of inspection rules.

Your uncrushed, malted, grain probably had numerous uninvited visitors, with 4 or 6 legs, on it prior to the manufacturer getting it in to a bag.  I don't mean to be gross or scare people but farms are dirty places.  Factory equipment can get contaminated and workers can make mistakes or take shortcuts.  It's a question of how hard you want to think about it.  While risks will always exist, they are generally minimal.

Unless you have had a bad experience with contaminated DME this seems like something that doesn't pose much of a risk in my opinion.

YMMV

Paul

Oh prior to the malting process grain is as dirty as it gets.  Even after the malting process it's still dirty.

It's a matter of trust.  I don't trust them.  Imagine ordering online and receiving a zip lock bag of DME.  That's scary.

[rungdalek]

Are you brewing with DME or making maltec milkshakes? First example gets boiled, second does not.

Let me give you some of my DME, I'll be sure to cough on it, spit in it, pick my nose it, sneeze on it, you can brew with that and then I'll watch as you drink the beer.  That's cool if you're ok with that.

[pete b]

So much here. My only concern would be the the moisture issue, which would be obvious. I just don't see the problem comparted to other food packaging, in fact DME gets boiled so there is no problem.
Do you ever buy things from a grocery store deli? What about all the things in a store that they buy in bulk and sell as their store brand in plastic containers, many of them ready to eat salads and such. Have you ever eaten in a restaurant? Bought self serve bulk nuts, grains, flour etc. in a store? Do you eat vegetables?
Apart from the hundreds of examples of more problematic packaging than this I could go on with, I think you have misplaced confidence in the larger corporations. The U.S. has less and less food safety enforcement. I would have much more confidence that my LHBS would safely package DME than General Mills would scrupulously make sure there are less than X amount of mouse turds in your corn flakes.

[hopfenundmalz]

Are you brewing with DME or making maltec milkshakes? First example gets boiled, second does not.

Let me give you some of my DME, I'll be sure to cough on it, spit in it, pick my nose it, sneeze on it, you can brew with that and then I'll watch as you drink the beer.  That's cool if you're ok with that.

I brew all grsinsnd know that there are many different microbes on the husks, boiling takes care that.

How many bug parts do you eat daily in processed food. FDA has has guidelines on how much. IIRC your jar of peanut butter can have 6 bug parts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/55459-fda-acceptable-food-defects.html

[rungdalek]

Are you brewing with DME or making maltec milkshakes? First example gets boiled, second does not.

Let me give you some of my DME, I'll be sure to cough on it, spit in it, pick my nose it, sneeze on it, you can brew with that and then I'll watch as you drink the beer.  That's cool if you're ok with that.

I brew all grsinsnd know that there are many different microbes on the husks, boiling takes care that.

How many bug parts do you eat daily in processed food. FDA has has guidelines on how much. IIRC your jar of peanut butter can have 6 bug parts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/55459-fda-acceptable-food-defects.html

That's correct, my previous post agrees, but I still don't trust the zip lock bag of DME at the LHBS.

[rungdalek]

So much here. My only concern would be the the moisture issue, which would be obvious. I just don't see the problem comparted to other food packaging, in fact DME gets boiled so there is no problem.
Do you ever buy things from a grocery store deli? What about all the things in a store that they buy in bulk and sell as their store brand in plastic containers, many of them ready to eat salads and such. Have you ever eaten in a restaurant? Bought self serve bulk nuts, grains, flour etc. in a store? Do you eat vegetables?
Apart from the hundreds of examples of more problematic packaging than this I could go on with, I think you have misplaced confidence in the larger corporations. The U.S. has less and less food safety enforcement. I would have much more confidence that my LHBS would safely package DME than General Mills would scrupulously make sure there are less than X amount of mouse turds in your corn flakes.

Industrial processes aren't perfect but I would put more faith in an industrial/commercial DME packaging facility than an LHBS putting DME in a zip lock bag.

[pete b]

So much here. My only concern would be the the moisture issue, which would be obvious. I just don't see the problem comparted to other food packaging, in fact DME gets boiled so there is no problem.
Do you ever buy things from a grocery store deli? What about all the things in a store that they buy in bulk and sell as their store brand in plastic containers, many of them ready to eat salads and such. Have you ever eaten in a restaurant? Bought self serve bulk nuts, grains, flour etc. in a store? Do you eat vegetables?
Apart from the hundreds of examples of more problematic packaging than this I could go on with, I think you have misplaced confidence in the larger corporations. The U.S. has less and less food safety enforcement. I would have much more confidence that my LHBS would safely package DME than General Mills would scrupulously make sure there are less than X amount of mouse turds in your corn flakes.

Industrial processes aren't perfect but I would put more faith in an industrial/commercial DME packaging facility than an LHBS putting DME in a zip lock bag.

I guess I don't understand the hangup with DME vs any other food product or homebrewing product like hops or grain. I take it you would never go to a restaurant or get a take out sandwich?

[BrewBama]

I imagine industrial produced beer probably has many controls and QA points that we as homebrewers don’t implement. Those include ingredient quality control.

This is a non issue in my world. ...but if it is in yours then by all means don’t incorporate the ingredients in your processes.

[rungdalek]

So much here. My only concern would be the the moisture issue, which would be obvious. I just don't see the problem comparted to other food packaging, in fact DME gets boiled so there is no problem.
Do you ever buy things from a grocery store deli? What about all the things in a store that they buy in bulk and sell as their store brand in plastic containers, many of them ready to eat salads and such. Have you ever eaten in a restaurant? Bought self serve bulk nuts, grains, flour etc. in a store? Do you eat vegetables?
Apart from the hundreds of examples of more problematic packaging than this I could go on with, I think you have misplaced confidence in the larger corporations. The U.S. has less and less food safety enforcement. I would have much more confidence that my LHBS would safely package DME than General Mills would scrupulously make sure there are less than X amount of mouse turds in your corn flakes.

Industrial processes aren't perfect but I would put more faith in an industrial/commercial DME packaging facility than an LHBS putting DME in a zip lock bag.

I guess I don't understand the hangup with DME vs any other food product or homebrewing product like hops or grain. I take it you would never go to a restaurant or get a take out sandwich?

Restaurants are controlled food preparation facilities, an LHBS is not.

[rungdalek]

I imagine industrial produced beer probably has many controls and QA points that we as homebrewers don’t implement. Those include ingredient quality control.

This is a non issue in my world. ...but if it is in yours then by all means don’t incorporate the ingredients in your processes.

Oh I still use DME I just don't buy zip lock bagged DME from an LHBS.

[BrewBama]

[pete b]

So much here. My only concern would be the the moisture issue, which would be obvious. I just don't see the problem comparted to other food packaging, in fact DME gets boiled so there is no problem.
Do you ever buy things from a grocery store deli? What about all the things in a store that they buy in bulk and sell as their store brand in plastic containers, many of them ready to eat salads and such. Have you ever eaten in a restaurant? Bought self serve bulk nuts, grains, flour etc. in a store? Do you eat vegetables?
Apart from the hundreds of examples of more problematic packaging than this I could go on with, I think you have misplaced confidence in the larger corporations. The U.S. has less and less food safety enforcement. I would have much more confidence that my LHBS would safely package DME than General Mills would scrupulously make sure there are less than X amount of mouse turds in your corn flakes.

Industrial processes aren't perfect but I would put more faith in an industrial/commercial DME packaging facility than an LHBS putting DME in a zip lock bag.

I guess I don't understand the hangup with DME vs any other food product or homebrewing product like hops or grain. I take it you would never go to a restaurant or get a take out sandwich?

Restaurants are controlled food preparation facilities, an LHBS is not.

I think you have a weird faith in restaurant workers and factories and a weird paranoia about lhbs employees intentionally trying to harm you.

[Megary]

Are you brewing with DME or making maltec milkshakes? First example gets boiled, second does not.

Let me give you some of my DME, I'll be sure to cough on it, spit in it, pick my nose it, sneeze on it, you can brew with that and then I'll watch as you drink the beer.  That's cool if you're ok with that.

 

I assume you are just jacking up the amps here to make a point, but if not...maybe choosing a different LHBS would be in your best interests??  I can understand some skepticism, but what you are describing is borderline criminal. 

[Village Taphouse]

This thread delivers. 

[majorvices]

I think you have a weird faith in restaurant workers and factories and a weird paranoia about lhbs employees intentionally trying to harm you.

Have to agree. I would be willing to bet whomever is repacking the DME is being as careful as most people who are "just doing their job" including the guy who is packing the DME for Briess of Northern Brewer or whomever. Some sloppiness is inevitable. The biggest concern for me would be how they are storing the bulk DME if they aren't repacking it all at once. Aside from that, if you don't like how they package their DME I wouldn't blame you if you shopped elsewhere.