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Author Topic: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?  (Read 2595 times)

Offline fredthecat

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k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« on: December 14, 2020, 11:39:53 am »
i know people have a lot of opinions about it.

i suddenly decided i needed to make a dark beer, ideally a new stout concept ive been making. k97 is my yeast up next, i dont want to waste the packet, plus do want to give it a try.

i will not be doing open fermentation, so will likely not be able to skim off the "brown head", recommended to reduce the bitterness ascribed to this yeast.

people online give very specific instructions for this yeast, saying "not suitable for X. really only good for X"


anyway, im going for a black patent stout. would this be alright? i mainly dont want some funny and very out of style ester coming up in it.

Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2020, 11:49:29 am »
I've never detected bitterness that I could blame on this yeast.
You'd be hard pressed to tell what yeast was used in a black patent stout.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2020, 12:38:55 pm »
Not a bad yeast if you like your beer to taste like bread and yeast.  Might be most appropriate for an American Hefe... and that's about it, in my opinion.  It does not produce any esters that I could detect.

I don't think I'll use it anymore as it's not a terrible yeast, but not as good as a lot of other yeasts.
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Offline denny

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2020, 12:59:55 pm »
Not a bad yeast if you like your beer to taste like bread and yeast.  Might be most appropriate for an American Hefe... and that's about it, in my opinion.  It does not produce any esters that I could detect.

I don't think I'll use it anymore as it's not a terrible yeast, but not as good as a lot of other yeasts.

I decided the same thing a while back
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Offline chinaski

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2020, 01:43:28 pm »
Me three.  Got a blonde on tap with it as its OK but not great.

Offline Megary

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2020, 02:14:39 pm »
I only used K-97 once and got a sulfur aroma, as if it was a lager yeast.  Taste was clean however.

Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2020, 10:59:46 am »
i know people have a lot of opinions about it.

i suddenly decided i needed to make a dark beer, ideally a new stout concept ive been making. k97 is my yeast up next, i dont want to waste the packet, plus do want to give it a try.

i will not be doing open fermentation, so will likely not be able to skim off the "brown head", recommended to reduce the bitterness ascribed to this yeast.

people online give very specific instructions for this yeast, saying "not suitable for X. really only good for X"


anyway, im going for a black patent stout. would this be alright? i mainly dont want some funny and very out of style ester coming up in it.


I may be the odd ball out on this one but I really like K-97. I have used it fermented cool 58-60 for Kolsch and Alt "style" beers and have used it warmer 66-68 for Session Ales, Hazy IPA's and really like it. It gets to work fast, it's a very strong fermenting yeast...be prepared for a blowout or give it good headspace. With that said, I haven't used it in anything else. Would I...sure, would I in a Stout...it's not the first thing that comes to mind but I think it could work. I don't find it to dry the beer too much, nor does it finish high. It seems to give the beers I have made with it just a touch of something extra...not strong esters, nothing funky just something. I say go for it if it's something you have wanted to try...if you do, please report back as it makes threads like this so much better. Using it in a Stout, Dry Stout it sounds like, as mentioned you will probably be hard pressed to pick the yeast character apart, at least I would think so, IMO...it certainly wont scream unpleasant esters at you, I found it fairly clean, not totally neutral but clean and I got out of it what I wanted and expected.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 11:03:17 am by PORTERHAUS »

Offline BeerfanOz

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2020, 01:27:42 pm »
I use white labs German ale in stout often. Can’t taste anything but roasty goodness
Shellharbour, NSW, Australia

Offline fredthecat

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2020, 02:22:07 pm »
didnt manage to reply to the above posts. thanks, i understand, but i've already got it. so it'll be fine. am considering doing a 3 gallon batch of it. i miss doing smaller batches.


I may be the odd ball out on this one but I really like K-97. I have used it fermented cool 58-60 for Kolsch and Alt "style" beers and have used it warmer 66-68 for Session Ales, Hazy IPA's and really like it. It gets to work fast, it's a very strong fermenting yeast...be prepared for a blowout or give it good headspace. With that said, I haven't used it in anything else. Would I...sure, would I in a Stout...it's not the first thing that comes to mind but I think it could work. I don't find it to dry the beer too much, nor does it finish high. It seems to give the beers I have made with it just a touch of something extra...not strong esters, nothing funky just something. I say go for it if it's something you have wanted to try...if you do, please report back as it makes threads like this so much better. Using it in a Stout, Dry Stout it sounds like, as mentioned you will probably be hard pressed to pick the yeast character apart, at least I would think so, IMO...it certainly wont scream unpleasant esters at you, I found it fairly clean, not totally neutral but clean and I got out of it what I wanted and expected.

thanks, yup i know several brewers here have a particular take on it, and i do appreciate their advice on various yeasts. but i see a lot of people out there also saying its a clean straightforward yeast that isnt too finnicky. you just need to make sure to give it lots of time to clear out.

would you be able to describe any perceived flavours or tendencies of it?

Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2020, 09:10:56 pm »
thanks, yup i know several brewers here have a particular take on it, and i do appreciate their advice on various yeasts. but i see a lot of people out there also saying its a clean straightforward yeast that isnt too finnicky. you just need to make sure to give it lots of time to clear out.

would you be able to describe any perceived flavours or tendencies of it?


Sure, I'll try. Like I mentioned when I used it cooler a few times it seemed to be in line with what I would think of for a "German Ale" character. It was clean, crisp, somewhat dry but with a softness yet not full tasting. I wouldn't call it Lager clean, just clean Ale tasting. For esters I dont' recall anything standing out. There wasn't the characteristic light fruit/grape wine note from a Kolsch yeast but there was some light fruit character. When used warmer in hoppy session ales, character got even less and just blended in letting the hops and malt come through.

It's a fast starter, it gets to work and gets rocking so again, be prepared for a blow out depending on what you ferment in or at least give it some good head space. It forms a very thick rocky dense krausen that can stick around a while. The beer will clear, it doesn't stay cloudy like a Witbier, but it's not crystal clear...might be somewhat hazy but that will depend on recipe, water characteristics...etc. When I used it in a NEIPA style beer it actually cleared too much...didn't make much of a hazy at all after a couple weeks, but it made a great beer for that style. I have heard it can put off some sulfur, so be sure to give it a good fermentation time to off gas, a good cold crash and maybe some lagering...depending on how you package, I don't know. But really for a Stout I would go for it, I might target lower end of mid 60's doesn't need to be 58, but I don't think I would put it above 65 unless it was another style but that's just a guess. I don't remember it being very finiky at all for me, I was quite surprised by it the times I used it and enjoyed the several beers I made with it.

Offline fredthecat

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2020, 10:27:15 am »


Sure, I'll try. Like I mentioned when I used it cooler a few times it seemed to be in line with what I would think of for a "German Ale" character. It was clean, crisp, somewhat dry but with a softness yet not full tasting. I wouldn't call it Lager clean, just clean Ale tasting. For esters I dont' recall anything standing out. There wasn't the characteristic light fruit/grape wine note from a Kolsch yeast but there was some light fruit character. When used warmer in hoppy session ales, character got even less and just blended in letting the hops and malt come through.

It's a fast starter, it gets to work and gets rocking so again, be prepared for a blow out depending on what you ferment in or at least give it some good head space. It forms a very thick rocky dense krausen that can stick around a while. The beer will clear, it doesn't stay cloudy like a Witbier, but it's not crystal clear...might be somewhat hazy but that will depend on recipe, water characteristics...etc. When I used it in a NEIPA style beer it actually cleared too much...didn't make much of a hazy at all after a couple weeks, but it made a great beer for that style. I have heard it can put off some sulfur, so be sure to give it a good fermentation time to off gas, a good cold crash and maybe some lagering...depending on how you package, I don't know. But really for a Stout I would go for it, I might target lower end of mid 60's doesn't need to be 58, but I don't think I would put it above 65 unless it was another style but that's just a guess. I don't remember it being very finiky at all for me, I was quite surprised by it the times I used it and enjoyed the several beers I made with it.


really appreciated. i feel like these kinds of detailed descriptions are often lacking for so many yeasts, and it would make things a lot easier if the clear descriptions were archived.


Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2020, 11:19:47 am »
really appreciated. i feel like these kinds of detailed descriptions are often lacking for so many yeasts, and it would make things a lot easier if the clear descriptions were archived.

For sure, I agree and that's why I asked to please update how you ended up liking it or not for your Stout. I have a hard time with descriptors, they are just so general. It takes a little time with each yeast, malt, hops to get a feel for it yourself. Plus, so many variables out there, some people say this, say that all based on individual experience, preference and sensory. I look forward to hearing how it works out for you, but I think you will probably like the results.

Offline fredthecat

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2020, 03:17:35 pm »
really appreciated. i feel like these kinds of detailed descriptions are often lacking for so many yeasts, and it would make things a lot easier if the clear descriptions were archived.

For sure, I agree and that's why I asked to please update how you ended up liking it or not for your Stout. I have a hard time with descriptors, they are just so general. It takes a little time with each yeast, malt, hops to get a feel for it yourself. Plus, so many variables out there, some people say this, say that all based on individual experience, preference and sensory. I look forward to hearing how it works out for you, but I think you will probably like the results.


I've never used WB06, and i plan to sometime in the future. Apparently it is most closely related to WLP570/duvel, it gets very high attenuation and is diastatic+. yet it used to be and still is often recommended as a dry hefeweizen yeast. would be nice to kinda clearly blow that descriptor away and let people know theres a widely available belgian yeast around.

currently finishing up packaging some WLP013 beers. yeah, definitely oaky and malt focused as people say about it. not my favourite. but not bad. extremely good body producer. i should take a pic of the stout and upload it later.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2020, 09:30:34 am »
If WB06 is closely linked to the culture used to ferment Duvel, it is actually of Scottish origin.  Duvel's culture was isolated by Jean DeClerk from a mixed culture found in a bottle of bottle-conditioned McEwan's scotch ale.

Offline fredthecat

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Re: k-97 for a stout or dark brown?
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2020, 04:11:52 pm »
If WB06 is closely linked to the culture used to ferment Duvel, it is actually of Scottish origin.  Duvel's culture was isolated by Jean DeClerk from a mixed culture found in a bottle of bottle-conditioned McEwan's scotch ale.

yup, i listened to a 50 min long beersmith show with ron pattinson as the guest on scottish ales that was illuminating. i would bet they would have been using POF+ yeasts at the time. a lot of conceptions people have about scottish historic beer are very very wrong.