[skyler]

Has anyone used brown malt (Crisp, specifically) in a dark lager? Is it too toasty/roasty to mesh with a smoother style?

I am trying to give myself a twofer (two beers for the time of one). I want to brew an American Brown Ale with Verdant and I want to brew a lager with WLP802. I believe a little sinamar added to one fermenter can get me there on color differences, and I am unconcerned about the effect a pilsner malt base will have on the brown ale (done it before out of necessity). But would ~8% brown malt be too roasty/toasty for a more-or-less Czech dark lager? I recall a fair bit of variety, but none were all that roasty or toasty, IME.

Tentative recipe below for reference.

12 gallons (in kettle)
70% Viking Pils
12% Bohemian Dark Malt
8% Brown Malt
8% Carabohemian Malt
2% Carafa Special II (added at vorlauf)
2-4 oz Sinamar added to one fermenter

Hochkurz Single Decoction, no mash out (60 mins @146 - 30 mins @158)
Batch Sparge

1 oz Sterling FWH
1 oz Mt. Hood 60 mins (or as much as gets me to 30 total IBUs)
1 oz Sterling 30 mins
2 oz Sterling 0 mins

5.5 gallons w/sinamar fermented @48F, rising to 52F w/WLP802, then D-rest and lagered @34F for 2-4 months.
5.5 gallons fermented @64F, rising to 68F w/Verdant, then kegged as soon as feasible.

[goose]

I have never made a dark lager, but I have used Brown Malt in a porter in the past.  I am not especially fond of it as it has somewhat of a sour taste to my palate, but that is just me.  I can usually pick it out right away when I judge a beer that contains it.

that said, it is your beer so maybe give it a shot.  It might come out really good for you.

[ynotbrusum]

It certainly can be done, but flavor-wise you might want to read the following:

https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2015/12/tmave-pivo-czech-dark-lager.html

Cheers.

[Megary]

I have never gotten sour from Brown Malt but I do get a slight roast aroma with a roasty, slight ash, almost burnt toast flavor.  I won't use it past 5% of the grain bill and even at that, it depends on the rest of the grain bill.  That's Crisp Brown Malt, by the way.

[skyler]

It certainly can be done, but flavor-wise you might want to read the following:

https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2015/12/tmave-pivo-czech-dark-lager.html

Cheers.

I like that blog a lot, but generally don't find U Fleku to be the greatest example of the style, even if it is the most famous. I also don't like the "quick lager" method, FWIW. That said, I have brewed Czech lagers 100% to the style before a couple times and enjoyed the results. With this beer, I am curious if straying by adding this ingredient will still keep it in the ballpark or push it into "porter" territory.

[skyler]

I have never gotten sour from Brown Malt but I do get a slight roast aroma with a roasty, slight ash, almost burnt toast flavor.  I won't use it past 5% of the grain bill and even at that, it depends on the rest of the grain bill.  That's Crisp Brown Malt, by the way.

I have used brown malt in porters and brown ales before. I agree not to push it too far, as it can be pretty bold. I used it in this same quantity in a similar-gravity brown ale and liked it before, but I may take your advice and drop it to ~5%.

[mabrungard]

I am pretty sure that they're not using brown malts in CZ for their dark lagers.  Certainly not Crisp malts, since that's quite a haul from UK to CZ.  Additionally, I find that Crisp Brown has a bit of a smoke note that's excellent in a porter, but probably wouldn't be welcome in the dark lager.

I believe that the CZ brewers are probably using Sinimar or a touch of black malt to provide the color.  They may also be using some colored crystal or base malts.

[skyler]

I find that Crisp Brown has a bit of a smoke note that's excellent in a porter, but probably wouldn't be welcome in the dark lager.

This is exactly what I was wondering about. Since it is a pretty bold malt, in terms of flavor, I wondered if it would stick out oddly in a dark lager. I don't really care about brewing precisely to style here, but I want something more or less balanced similarly to a Czech dark lager (as opposed to a Munich Dunkel or Schwarzbier). The thing is that I know I will be pleased with the brown ale half of this (at least in terms of malt bill -- I usually use a smooth bittering hop and something piney at flameout for American brown ales). But if I just end up with a brown ale and a lager-porter, it's not the right beer for me.