Author Topic: Going Semi-Pro?  (Read 1275 times)

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 24164
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Going Semi-Pro?
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2021, 02:39:38 PM »
The safe harbor under 183(d) isn't at helpful as it appears. You're going to butt up against the hobby loss rules. Basically all of your income will be taxable but none of your expenses will be deductible.

I would expect an operation like that to lose a fair amount of money each year, but vanity projects can be great fun if you have the money to burn.
I'm not seeing your point.
Just don't show a paper loss for 2 out of 5 years.
But I'm not actually planning on having an actual loss, let alone a paper one.
I own the building. I own the equipment. I'm not paying employees. My expenses are ingredients and utilities.

Well people usually value advice at cost, so I suggest paying a CPA if you don't like my free advice.
I did not intend for my reply to you to sound snooty, and I'm sorry if I came across that way. I was just explaining my thought process.
Plus, I already stated that I spent a whole career as an accountant. Specializing in payroll, but partnership 1065 returns and personal 1040 returns as well.
I know I'm not going to make much money, and I'm going to make sure not to lose enough money on paper that jeaprodizes my ability to still say this is a business.
I was hoping for some real experience of "I turned a hobby I love into a job I hate" kind of thing.

Not with brewing, but with 2 others hobbies I loved.  First was computers.  I started getting into computers in 1965.  Building and programming became a hobby I absolutely loved.  Spent 10 years taking care of the network at my wife's computer animation company, then another 5 years doing networks at a large real estate company.  After that I never wanted to look at another computer.  I also started playing music in 1965 and played in ,ots of bands and toured with big name rock acts as a tech.  Built some of the first pro digital audio equipment.  When the tours ended I started a recording studio, writing music, doing SFX and production for film and video.  Sounds like a dream, huh?   Itbwas for a while, but eventually it became just another job I had to go to every day.  By the time I closed the studio, i was so sick of music I couldnt listen to any for maybe 6 years afterward.  It reminded me of work. That's why I will NEVER brew as anything but a hobby.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Online majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10698
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Going Semi-Pro?
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2021, 07:00:34 PM »
I understand where you are coming from Denny but some people do want to and enjoy working in or for a brewery. I loved running my brewery until I fell out with my partners. The only reason I am not involved with the brewery I founded is because I chose the wrong people to get into business with and allowed a power structure to form that didn't benefit me. Now I find myself back working in a brewery because I do enjoy it.
   So while it is not for everyone who has a brewing hobby to open a brewery it certainly is for some. If the cards play out right I may be opening another one again in the next couple of years. But as Thirsty Monk said, it is a young man's game and it is a lot of work so itr will have to happen soon or not happen at all.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 24164
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Going Semi-Pro?
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2021, 07:14:15 PM »
I understand where you are coming from Denny but some people do want to and enjoy working in or for a brewery. I loved running my brewery until I fell out with my partners. The only reason I am not involved with the brewery I founded is because I chose the wrong people to get into business with and allowed a power structure to form that didn't benefit me. Now I find myself back working in a brewery because I do enjoy it.
   So while it is not for everyone who has a brewing hobby to open a brewery it certainly is for some. If the cards play out right I may be opening another one again in the next couple of years. But as Thirsty Monk said, it is a young man's game and it is a lot of work so itr will have to happen soon or not happen at all.

He wanted examples , I gave him examples. I'm not alone, and neither are you.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline StormCrow

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Going Semi-Pro?
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2021, 08:21:43 PM »
I understand where you are coming from Denny but some people do want to and enjoy working in or for a brewery. I loved running my brewery until I fell out with my partners. The only reason I am not involved with the brewery I founded is because I chose the wrong people to get into business with and allowed a power structure to form that didn't benefit me. Now I find myself back working in a brewery because I do enjoy it.
   So while it is not for everyone who has a brewing hobby to open a brewery it certainly is for some. If the cards play out right I may be opening another one again in the next couple of years. But as Thirsty Monk said, it is a young man's game and it is a lot of work so itr will have to happen soon or not happen at all.

He wanted examples , I gave him examples. I'm not alone, and neither are you.
I appreciate this input. Real life experience that I can try and weigh against my own hopes or expectations.
But again, this is intended to be a retirement gig for someone who is already uncomfortably close to limits of homebrewing and who wants to open up my space for people who enjoy drinking craft beer and telling stories on the weekends.
I look at your experience, and say to myself "don't make it more than you want to", and I think I can still get great pleasure from my hobby, and make a few thousand bucks for my time.
50 bbls or so a year isn't really pouring myself into a career.

Online majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10698
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Going Semi-Pro?
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2021, 09:01:40 PM »
It's worth a shot. I would be willing to bet it costs you more than you make but who knows? I could be wrong.

Offline Thirsty_Monk

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2461
  • Eau Claire WI
    • Lazy Monk Brewing
Re: Going Semi-Pro?
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2021, 09:16:06 PM »
I understand where you are coming from Denny but some people do want to and enjoy working in or for a brewery. I loved running my brewery until I fell out with my partners. The only reason I am not involved with the brewery I founded is because I chose the wrong people to get into business with and allowed a power structure to form that didn't benefit me. Now I find myself back working in a brewery because I do enjoy it.
   So while it is not for everyone who has a brewing hobby to open a brewery it certainly is for some. If the cards play out right I may be opening another one again in the next couple of years. But as Thirsty Monk said, it is a young man's game and it is a lot of work so itr will have to happen soon or not happen at all.

He wanted examples , I gave him examples. I'm not alone, and neither are you.
I appreciate this input. Real life experience that I can try and weigh against my own hopes or expectations.
But again, this is intended to be a retirement gig for someone who is already uncomfortably close to limits of homebrewing and who wants to open up my space for people who enjoy drinking craft beer and telling stories on the weekends.
I look at your experience, and say to myself "don't make it more than you want to", and I think I can still get great pleasure from my hobby, and make a few thousand bucks for my time.
50 bbls or so a year isn't really pouring myself into a career.
It looks like you have your plan.

I can tell you the most rewarding part of owning a brewery is to sell your beer directly to your customers. Never wanted to do that but this is what it turn out to be.

From licensing point of view. It you have structure that is separate from your main dwelling and your zoning approves it and your state allows you to do that, that is major expense (that you do not have to occurre) that will allow you to do it as a semi-hobby.

I have one regret. That I did not open my brewery 10 years before I opened. It is a great thing then what you do (and you like it) allows you to make living.

So go ahead and do it. Have fun. But you still have to meet the expectations that you set up for your customers. Bottom
Line is you have to make a beer what customers want to buy.

I love rye beers, I love AltBiers, I love Dunkel Weisen but I do not make them because no one wants to buy them. I do not care for IPAs but I make it because this is that people want to drink. And I drew a line. I do not make NEIPAs and any smoothly or sour fruity alcoholic beverages. And for sure I will not put a cream cheese in my beer.
Na Zdravie

Lazy Monk Brewing
http://www.lazymonkbrewing.com

Online majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10698
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Going Semi-Pro?
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2021, 10:19:22 PM »


I love rye beers, I love AltBiers, I love Dunkel Weisen but I do not make them because no one wants to buy them. I do not care for IPAs but I make it because this is that people want to drink. And I drew a line. I do not make NEIPAs and any smoothly or sour fruity alcoholic beverages. And for sure I will not put a cream cheese in my beer.

This is an incredibly important point for anyone considering opening a brewery. The beer styles your customers want may not be the beer styles that you enjoy making. I don't care for Hazy IPAs but I absolutely detest "Milkshake IPAs" and the ilk that goes with it. But guess what? That's what sells.

Offline 69franx

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3200
  • Bloatarian Brewing League
Re: Going Semi-Pro?
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2021, 05:36:33 AM »


I love rye beers, I love AltBiers, I love Dunkel Weisen but I do not make them because no one wants to buy them. I do not care for IPAs but I make it because this is that people want to drink. And I drew a line. I do not make NEIPAs and any smoothly or sour fruity alcoholic beverages. And for sure I will not put a cream cheese in my beer.

This is an incredibly important point for anyone considering opening a brewery. The beer styles your customers want may not be the beer styles that you enjoy making. I don't care for Hazy IPAs but I absolutely detest "Milkshake IPAs" and the ilk that goes with it. But guess what? That's what sells.
If that's not enough to deter you, I'm not sure what will. I brew what I would like to drink, or something that someone I know would like to drink. I have no desire to chase the latest fad to keep my "taproom" full. Them again, nobody and I mean NOBODY, is paying for my beer currently, so I don't know much about this aspect. I do know I have no desire to brew a 10 BBL batch of chocolate, mocha hazelnut pastry stout. How would I even know if I got that right?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 05:38:07 AM by 69franx »
Frank L.
Fermenting: Nothing (ugh!)
Conditioning: Nothing (UGH!)
In keg: Nothing (Double UGH!)
In the works:  House IPA, Dark Mild, Ballantine Ale clone(still trying to work this one into the schedule)