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Author Topic: Grain bugs problem  (Read 3912 times)

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2021, 10:03:02 am »
We purchase our grain in 55 lb bags. Usually have two, maybe three bags sitting in my closet (summertime), or the utility room (winter time), as that is the coolest location with little or no humidity.

These bags will last for a month or longer, maybe even 10 weeks. Never had a bug problem. None.

Now...decades ago when a purchase was made from a local brew shop, we did have buggy grain. Their grain was stored out on the floor, in bins.

Offline Cliffs

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2021, 04:20:36 pm »
would you make any other food product if it was infested with insects? I wouldnt eat oatmeal that was infested with bugs, so I wouldnt brew beer with it either.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2021, 08:43:02 am »
would you make any other food product if it was infested with insects? I wouldn't eat oatmeal that was infested with bugs, so I wouldn't brew beer with it either.

That's my thinking, exactly.

Offline allenhuerta

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2021, 08:59:14 am »
would you make any other food product if it was infested with insects? I wouldn't eat oatmeal that was infested with bugs, so I wouldn't brew beer with it either.

That's my thinking, exactly.
When you put it that way I had grain bugs in a bag I had just open back in 2010. The internet at the time just told me to freeze it and once I don't see them anymore it's good to go. That's what I did.. I don't remember the beer. 

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Offline denny

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2021, 10:06:15 am »
would you make any other food product if it was infested with insects? I wouldnt eat oatmeal that was infested with bugs, so I wouldnt brew beer with it either.

I don't consider them analogous situations.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2021, 11:13:19 am »
Got news for ya'll, breweries that open a 2200lb super sack to find it is infested with bugs ... use it.

Offline denny

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2021, 11:31:38 am »
Got news for ya'll, breweries that open a 2200lb super sack to find it is infested with bugs ... use it.

And that's reality.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2021, 11:41:06 am »
I believe it.  Just think of the level of infestation at the microbe level, even in the "cleanest" of grain sacks....thankfully boiling does wonders to clean up things (at least most things, anyway).
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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2021, 02:40:46 pm »
would you make any other food product if it was infested with insects? I wouldnt eat oatmeal that was infested with bugs, so I wouldnt brew beer with it either.

I don't stress over it too much.  I might not make breakfast with the oatmeal but I would probably find something to use it for.

Insects have been a big part of the human diet for millions of years and likely be again in the future. There are some you should not eat but most won't hurt you.  We can't raise enough hogs and cattle to feed everyone the way Americans eat and the protean will need to come from somewhere.

I also admit I am not ready to eat live bugs, beyond the occasional accident while riding bike.  Food that fights back can be difficult to make yourself eat, at least for me.

RDWHAHB.  You can digest them.

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Offline beerphilmcd

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2021, 04:13:47 pm »
would you make any other food product if it was infested with insects? I wouldnt eat oatmeal that was infested with bugs, so I wouldnt brew beer with it either.

I don't stress over it too much.  I might not make breakfast with the oatmeal but I would probably find something to use it for.

Insects have been a big part of the human diet for millions of years and likely be again in the future. There are some you should not eat but most won't hurt you.  We can't raise enough hogs and cattle to feed everyone the way Americans eat and the protean will need to come from somewhere.

I also admit I am not ready to eat live bugs, beyond the occasional accident while riding bike.  Food that fights back can be difficult to make yourself eat, at least for me.

RDWHAHB.  You can digest them.

Paul
So you’re saying if the infestation is severe enough to add enough protein it could aid in haze formation for my next hazy boi!?!?


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Offline Tummydoc

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2021, 04:58:44 pm »
The aversion to consuming insects is a Western Culture phenomenon. Southeast Asian culture embraces more readily alternate protein sources. I don't have a problem using grain with insects for a wort that will be boiled, fermented, and racked.

Offline Lazy Ant Brewing

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2021, 07:21:25 am »
You might still be able to brew with them as others have said but would you want to?

There are more than just the bugs themselves in your grain. Bugs defecate and their poop is called "frass". Like all critters their lifespan comes to an end meaning you have bug carcasses in your grain as well. Probably a lot of them since your second infestation is likely the offspring of the now dead first generation(s). So when you raise a glass of that beer try not to think about all the bug s*** and insect cadavers that went into it.

If you only knew how many insect parts, frass and mold are in foods that you eat every day:  info below from CNN health . . .

The FDA has established standards to keep food defects to a minimum. 
Peanut butter is one of the most controlled foods in the FDA list; an average of one or more rodent hairs and 30 (or so) insect fragments are allowed for every 100 grams, which is 3.5 ounces.  Apple butter can also contain up to 12% mold, which is better than cherry jam, which can be 30% moldy, or black currant jam, which can be 75% moldy.

And the list goes on and on.

Fortunately AFAIK, e coli and norovirus can't grow in beer and unlike eating at certain restaurants that made marketing campaigns touting their organic ingredients, but whose patrons fell ill from eating food contaminated with the above organisms, beer is safe from microbes that will make you sick.


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Offline allenhuerta

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2021, 07:24:27 am »
Some things are best not to think about

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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2021, 09:23:21 am »
You might still be able to brew with them as others have said but would you want to?

There are more than just the bugs themselves in your grain. Bugs defecate and their poop is called "frass". Like all critters their lifespan comes to an end meaning you have bug carcasses in your grain as well. Probably a lot of them since your second infestation is likely the offspring of the now dead first generation(s). So when you raise a glass of that beer try not to think about all the bug s*** and insect cadavers that went into it.

If you only knew how many insect parts, frass and mold are in foods that you eat every day:  info below from CNN health . . .

The FDA has established standards to keep food defects to a minimum. 
Peanut butter is one of the most controlled foods in the FDA list; an average of one or more rodent hairs and 30 (or so) insect fragments are allowed for every 100 grams, which is 3.5 ounces.  Apple butter can also contain up to 12% mold, which is better than cherry jam, which can be 30% moldy, or black currant jam, which can be 75% moldy.

And the list goes on and on.

Fortunately AFAIK, e coli and norovirus can't grow in beer and unlike eating at certain restaurants that made marketing campaigns touting their organic ingredients, but whose patrons fell ill from eating food contaminated with the above organisms, beer is safe from microbes that will make you sick.

And this is why we make our own peanut butter (from scratch), and our own jams, from fruit off of our trees. Organic. No rodent hairs, or bug parts!

Offline Cliffs

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Re: Grain bugs problem
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2021, 10:29:10 am »
Got news for ya'll, breweries that open a 2200lb super sack to find it is infested with bugs ... use it.
just because things happen doesnt make it right. I just dont see how insect infestation in a food product is ever an acceptable thing. It's gross.