[colterwilson]

Are you new to homebrewing? Here's a beginner episode, it talks about the fundamental piece of equipment when it comes to brewing- the burners.

Listen now to the latest episode. 👇
https://homebrewingdiy.beer/index.php/2021/01/14/episode-71-beginner-series-burners/

[MNWayne]

After being dissatisfied with a burner that utilized the standard "banjo" element, I replaced the banjo with a ring of separate jets from MoreBeer.  It's a vast improvement.

[Saccharomyces]

I am beginning to wonder how long it is going to take for the propane brewing stove to become a relic of the past.  I know that what kept me from moving to all-grain brewing from partial-mash brewing earlier was the need to move outside with a propane stove.  Back then, there were not many options when it came to large propane stoves. There were zero purpose-built brewing stoves.  Most propane stoves were little more than a tube with a gas orifice that were designed for turkey frying.  The nicest stove available to amateur brewers was the Superb PC-100.  For only being a 35K BTU stove, the Superb PC-100 was better built than most of the modern brewing stoves.  I am sorry that I sold mine back in the second half of the 90s.

With that said, the trend of amateur brewing moving to electric brewing is undeniable.  From AIO units that operate on a standard 120V/15A house circuit to induction cooktops to full-blown automated electric breweries, I suspect that propane-based brewing will continue to lose favor.  I remember the first time I was able to brew in my garage with the door shut in the middle of winter.  The lack of propane hiss combined with the lack of winter cold entering my garage pretty much sealed the deal for me.  Not having to have fire extinguisher at the ready was also nice.  The only time I will use propane again is at an outdoor brewing event.

[ynotbrusum]

So right.  The days of propane are numbered.  I can count on one hand the number of times I have brewed on propane in the last three years - they were social brew events, all.  Propane is fine, don’t get me wrong, but for a myriad of reasons, I chose electric.  So nice to not run out of fuel in the middle of a batch in the boil....

[Saccharomyces]

The biggest hurdle to moving to electric used to be the lack of 240V options.  If one has an electric dryer or range, brewing with 240V is as simple as making up a cord that can connect a 240V system to NEMA 14-30 or NEMA 14-50 receptacle.  Most of the 3500W induction cooktops come with a NEMA 6-20P plug.  I made up a cord that connects a NEMA 5-15 15A 120V device and a 3500W induction cooktop to a NEMA 14-30 circuit I installed in my garage.



The switch on the duplex NEMA 5-15 receptacle is wired such that it turns the receptacle off and on.  The planned use for that receptacle is a pump.

[denny]

I'm another who think the days of propane are numbered.   2 years ago I couldn't imagine anything else.  These days, my propane burners and coolers are in storage.  I see the hobby evolving toward electric all in one systems.

[Saccharomyces]

By the way, I am not impressed with the Grainfather G30 220 system.  We can get 2000W out of a standard NEMA 5-20 120V/20A kitchen circuit.  However, I understand that the standard house circuit in Australia is 220V/13A, so that limits the safe upper continuous operating bound to 220 * 13 * 0.8 = 2288W.  We use the term 220 in the U.S., but 220 circuits have not been 220VAC since the 1930s in the United States.  Most homes in the United States are fed center-tapped split phase 240VAC with the actual voltage determined by how long the run is from the transformer that steps 7.2K VAC down to 240VAC.

[denny]

By the way, I am not impressed with the Grainfather G30 220 system.  We can get 2000W out of a standard NEMA 5-20 120V/20A kitchen circuit.  However, I understand that the standard house circuit in Australia is 220V/13A, so that limits the safe upper continuous operating bound to 220 * 13 * 0.8 = 2288W.  We use the term 220 in the U.S., but 220 circuits have not been 220VAC since the 1930s in the United States.  Most homes in the United States are fed center-tapped single phase 240VAC with the actual voltage determined by how long the run is from the transformer that steps 7.2K VAC down to 240VAC.

Not impressed meaning you've tried it?

[Saccharomyces]

I'm another who think the days of propane are numbered.   2 years ago I couldn't imagine anything else.  These days, my propane burners and coolers are in storage.  I see the hobby evolving toward electric all in one systems.

I believe that we will see an evolution from 2 or 3-vessal electric systems to AIO over time.  The number of long-time posters who have moved to AIO systems on this forum highlights this trend.

[fredthecat]

good thread, i had to re-purchase 90% of my brewing stuff a year ago, and i got all the things i was used to for stovetop brewing without too much consideration of anything else.

really though, with the prices of the all in one systems these days and the massive improvement in convenience and ease of brewing.

i wish i had just gotten one. would definitely recommend anyone just entering to go AIO electric for their first setup.

[Saccharomyces]

Not impressed meaning you've tried it?

I am not impressed that the power from using 240V is 2000W.   It is probably higher than that in practice because the element is more than likely rated for 2000W on a 220VAC circuit, which means that it is has a resistance of 220 / (2000 / 220) = ~24 Ohms.   That translates to 240 * (240 / 24) = ~2400W on a 240VAC circuit, which is still pretty darn anemic for a 240VAC circuit.  The increase does not justify the headache of moving to 240VAC. What Grainfather should do instead of offering this 240VAC device is offer a 2000W (elements with a combined resistance of 7.2 ohms) or 2250W (elements with a combined resistance of 6.4 ohms) kettle that operates on a NEMA 5-20 120VAC/20A circuit.  NEMA 5-20 120V/20A has been code in U.S. kltchens for many years (GFCI-protected outlets are now code).  Bathrooms also tend to have NEMA 5-20 120V/20A GFCI-protected circuits to handle hair dryers (washing machines and refrigerators also tend to have dedicated NEMA 5-20 120V/20A circuits).  It just goes to show how much of a disconnect there is between the electrical grids in the United States and Australia.   In the United States, 240VAC is used for heavy lifting; therefore, the smallest 240VAC circuit one is likely to encounter in a residential home is a NEMA 6-20 240VAC/20A circuit (4800W max).   Some older homes may have NEMA 6-15 240VAC/15A (3600W max) circuits that were used with window air conditioning units, but even then, they were mostly 240VAC/20A circuits.  I would bet that the United States is probably the largest amateur brewing market in the world.  Yet, non-American companies have yet to figure out how to effectively use our power grid.  It is not rocket science.  It is merely a matter of designing elements that maximize a NEMA 5-20 circuit's capabilities, which is 2400W for loads operating less than 3 hours at a time (de-rate to 1920W for continuous loads).  All of the current 120V AIO systems are designed to operate on NEMA 5-15 120V/15A circuits.  NEMA 5-15 circuits are mainly used for lighting in this country.  One cannot fix this kind of shortsightedness.  I would suspect that most brewers who start with an AIO are brewing in their kitchens.

[denny]

Not impressed meaning you've tried it?

I am not impressed that the power from using 240V is 2000W.   It is probably higher than that in practice because the element is more than likely rated for 2000W on a 220VAC circuit, which means that it is has a resistance of 220 / (2000 / 220) = ~24 Ohms.   That translates to 240 * (240 / 24) = ~2400W on a 240VAC circuit, which is still pretty darn anemic for a 240VAC circuit.  The increase does not justify the headache of moving to 240VAC. What Grainfather should do instead of offering this 240VAC device is offer a 2000W (elements with a combined resistance of 7.2 ohms) or 2250W (elements with a combined resistance of 6.4 ohms) kettle that operates on a NEMA 5-20 120VAC/20A circuit.  NEMA 5-20 120V/20A has been code in U.S. kltchens for many years (GFCI-protected outlets are now code).  Bathrooms also tend to have NEMA 5-20 120V/20A GFCI-protected circuits to handle hair dryers (washing machines and refrigerators also tend to have dedicated NEMA 5-20 120V/20A circuits).  It just goes to show how much of a disconnect there is between the electrical grids in the United States and Australia.   In the United States, 240VAC is used for heavy lifting; therefore, the smallest 240VAC circuit one is likely to encounter in a residential home is a NEMA 6-20 240VAC/20A circuit (4800W max).   Some older homes may have NEMA 6-15 240VAC/15A (3600W max) circuits that were used with window air conditioning units, but even then, they were mostly 240VAC/20A circuits.  I would bet that the United States is probably the largest amateur brewing market in the world.  Yet, non-American companies have yet to figure out how to effectively use our power grid.  It is not rocket science.  It is merely a matter of designing elements that maximize a NEMA 5-20 circuit's capabilities, which is 2400W for loads operating less than 3 hours at a time (de-rate to 1920W for continuous loads).  All of the current 120V AIO systems are designed to operate on NEMA 5-15 120V/15A circuits.  NEMA 5-15 circuits are mainly used for lighting in this country.  One cannot fix that kind of shortsightedness.

So you haven't tried it?  Reality often astonishes theory, Mark.  I've used one many times and I AM impressed. Theory is great, but we brew on reality.

[Saccharomyces]

So you haven't tried it?  Reality often astonishes theory, Mark.  I've used one many times and I AM impressed. Theory is great, but we brew on reality.

What I am saying that the power increase going to 240VAC is not worth the trouble.   The big difference when going from 120VAC to 240VAC occurs at about 3500W (which exceeds the power level available on the average Australian 220V circuit).  The difference in heating times between 2400W (I am assuming that the Grainfather element is rated at 2000W on a 220VAC circuit) and 3500W with 5-gallon all-grain batch size liquid volumes is more than ten minutes for most heating operations.  I consider 3500W to be the minimum power level needed to justify 240VAC operation.  What Grainfather is offering with the G30 220 setup can be accomplished on a 120V NEMA 5-20 circuit; therefore, the device could be used in most U.S. kitchens without need for a 240VAC outlet.  In my humble option, Grainfather need to rethink the Grainfather in the U.S. market.  Most AIO brewers will more than likely brew in their kitchens because that is where they have running water.   The G30 220 was a missed opportunity.

[majorvices]

If you can get away from exposed elements in the wort, electric rocks.

[Saccharomyces]

If you can get away from exposed elements in the wort, electric rocks.

With an exposed element, it is just a matter of paying attention.  Accidents happen, but dry fires can be avoided.