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Author Topic: if you could improve the standard north american industrial lager in 1 step how?  (Read 8951 times)

Offline Oiscout

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If you have not tried it, you should give Yuengling Traditional Lager a shot before you judge adjunct lager as inferior.  That beer is about as close to a Pre-Pro Lager as you will find today. It is an adjunct lager that drinks like a craft lager. Yuengling has been making beer for almost 200 years.
I know this has been discussed here but I do have a soft spot for Yuengling.  One reason may be that I can't get it here in Illinois so it's a sort of forbidden fruit.  I was visiting my inlaws in Islamorada a couple years ago and we were having lunch in a little beachside place and I ordered a Yuengling and my FIL ordered one too.  It was a draft in a clear plastic cup and it was fresh and delicious.  My FIL raised his glass and said, "It's a good beer".  The head was good, the beer was fresh-tasting and clean.  Fast forward to the next day when my wife and I drove down to Key West and went to Irish Kevin's and I ordered a Yuengling.  The difference was remarkable.  No head.  No head at all.  Funky-tasting like maybe it was old or mishandled, maybe the draft lines were dirty... not sure.  When it's good... it's good, I agree.  I found myself in Indiana where my daughter went to school and stopped at a gas station where they had 24 ounce cans of Yuengling and I bought a sixer and brought them home.  Delicious!
I grew up taking the brewery tour with my drunk coal miner uncle's, good times.

Although I don't like their beer the tours were super cool.

The area used to have great water till the coal companies pulled out and the mine run off started leaking into the nearby creeks and streams ( pronounced cricks if your from the area). I'm sure it made it's way into the water shed I often wonder where they get their water now. They picked the spot for the brewery based on the spring water on the land.

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« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 07:34:01 pm by Oiscout »

Offline tommymorris

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I made several CAPs this summer. My favorite was

78% 6-row
22% flaked corn
Omega Mexican Lager
Magnum FWH 27 IBU
0.75oz/5 gallons of US Saaz @ 15 & 5
1050 OG

That beer and all the CAPS I made this summer were awesome. I made the same basic recipe with just Pilsner Malt. I liked the flaked corn version better.

Offline majorvices

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Six row is high in protein so the rice and corn cuts back on the protein. Six row is also high in enzymes to help the corn convert and husk material to help lautering so it's a perfect combination. Doesn't have anything to do with yeast nutrients to my knowledge

If you have not tried it, you should give Yuengling Traditional Lager a shot before you judge adjunct lager as inferior. That beer is about as close to a Pre-Pro Lager as you will find today. It is an adjunct lager that drinks like a craft lager. Yuengling has been making beer for almost 200 years.

I've had Yuengling Lager, probably years before many had it. I grew up in PA and was drinking it the year it was released ('88 I believe). Back then Yuengling was completely regional, you could only get it in and around PA. I remember drinking Yuengling beers before they even brewed the lager, especially Lord Chesterfield and the Porter (which actually is very good). So I'm quite familiar with Yuengling.

Also not sure where I "judge adjunct lager as inferior"? I simply stated why 6 row works well with adjuncts.

Also, no, I don't really care for Yuengling Lager all that much to be honest. That said, I will drink it. Especially when options are limited.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 08:17:37 pm by majorvices »

Offline Village Taphouse

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I made several CAPs this summer. My favorite was

78% 6-row
22% flaked corn
Omega Mexican Lager
Magnum FWH 27 IBU
0.75oz/5 gallons of US Saaz @ 15 & 5
1050 OG

That beer and all the CAPS I made this summer were awesome. I made the same basic recipe with just Pilsner Malt. I liked the flaked corn version better.
Hey, there's that US Saaz again.  ;)  Hop heaven? 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline erockrph

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I brew a gold lager based on an "upgraded" American macro lager. I use a blend of Pilsner and Pale Ale malt as my base, with 20% flaked corn and about 3% aromatic malt. I bitter to 25 IBUs with Sterling and add an ounce more at flameout. The corn sweetness is balanced by the boosted hop character, and there is a bit fuller malt presence compared to the macros. It was designed out of a similar idea, how to brew something inspired by a US macro lager style, but something I'd enjoy more. It has become a favorite that I brew often.

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Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline fredthecat

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to re-focus people:


1. basic polish/danish/SE european/hungarian pale lagers are not in question here. i am quite willing to drink those. they can for sure be bad, but they are generally maltier, heavier feeling and can easily be found with 5.5% up to 6% ABV. also a lot are all-malt.

2. i dont know by name the sort of regional "good" beers, which are a step up in quality from the big industrial conglomerate names. ie. yuengling/shiner bock/narrangasett lager, etc. i know that these beers have special reputations among the general population, but am unaware of if they actually have a better taste or different style ie. classic american pilsner, pre-prohibition lager, "premium american lager", etc. they are not being discussed.

however, i am interested in differences in production between say yuengling vs. miller MGD. so yuengling uses adjuncts? sure, not necessarily a problem. isn't it sort of a slightly darker colour? perhaps adding crystal malt covers up a lot?


3. focusing on favourite CAP theories and recipes, while certainly interesting, is again not the topic at hand. to change say budweiser to a CAP would necessitate more than one, probably many changes from industrial lager.

tho, what is the appeal of CAP? what are some positive tastes/aspects one gets from using either corn or rice? ive never bothered using any non-malted grain besides flaked barley, wheat and oats in amounts under 10% total.


Offline fredthecat

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I brew a gold lager based on an "upgraded" American macro lager. I use a blend of Pilsner and Pale Ale malt as my base, with 20% flaked corn and about 3% aromatic malt. I bitter to 25 IBUs with Sterling and add an ounce more at flameout. The corn sweetness is balanced by the boosted hop character, and there is a bit fuller malt presence compared to the macros. It was designed out of a similar idea, how to brew something inspired by a US macro lager style, but something I'd enjoy more. It has become a favorite that I brew often.


i do like the sound of that. ive actually never used aromatic malt, does it have an effect like munich? i used melanoidin malt once, and yeah like everyone on the internet says - it's rough and just not great tasting.

Offline dmtaylor

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All grain 2 row pilsner malt (no corn or rice) - but I want to change the hops too! lol

This was my thought as well.  100% malt, no adjunct.
Dave

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Offline fredthecat

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All grain 2 row pilsner malt (no corn or rice) - but I want to change the hops too! lol

This was my thought as well.  100% malt, no adjunct.

i think this could be a good idea. im just now remembering some of the really ghetto german beers like that "5,0" in red black and yellow cans. its like the absolute last dregs of a mash scoured for maltose repeatedly then sparged one more time to get sugar, the cheapest crap you can get in germany. but its still head and shoulders better than bud or MGD in my opinion.

Offline Village Taphouse

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I think there are too many things people would want to change to choose just one.  Better malt.  More hops and better hops.  A yeast with more character.  Less adjuncts.  Sorry.  I'm probably the one who derailed this thing in the first place. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline fredthecat

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I think there are too many things people would want to change to choose just one.  Better malt.  More hops and better hops.  A yeast with more character.  Less adjuncts.  Sorry.  I'm probably the one who derailed this thing in the first place.

i accept your apology.  ;)

yeah, i know, i knew that would be the challenge, only choosing one. i really should have made it "choose two things". then we'd get somewhere.


i think you could really get somewhere though with just all-malt and trying out some wacky yeasts. not sure if changing the yeast would be a major cost issue (organizational is no concern, lets imagine), but a belgian, saison or simply chico strain yeast on all-malt american 2row with the standard 15IBU of budweiser.

Offline tommymorris

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I made several CAPs this summer. My favorite was

78% 6-row
22% flaked corn
Omega Mexican Lager
Magnum FWH 27 IBU
0.75oz/5 gallons of US Saaz @ 15 & 5
1050 OG

That beer and all the CAPS I made this summer were awesome. I made the same basic recipe with just Pilsner Malt. I liked the flaked corn version better.
Hey, there's that US Saaz again.  ;)  Hop heaven?
Yep. Good stuff.

Going back and forth with you I am filling my freezer with hops. Edelweiss, Spalt Select,... I need to get brewing. I also have lots of Sterling, Saaz, Hallertau, Magnum, and Crystal on hand. I have enough lager hops to last years. I’m going to have to start throwing old the older hops.

Offline Village Taphouse

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I made several CAPs this summer. My favorite was

78% 6-row
22% flaked corn
Omega Mexican Lager
Magnum FWH 27 IBU
0.75oz/5 gallons of US Saaz @ 15 & 5
1050 OG

That beer and all the CAPS I made this summer were awesome. I made the same basic recipe with just Pilsner Malt. I liked the flaked corn version better.
Hey, there's that US Saaz again.  ;)  Hop heaven?
Yep. Good stuff.

Going back and forth with you I am filling my freezer with hops. Edelweiss, Spalt Select,... I need to get brewing. I also have lots of Sterling, Saaz, Hallertau, Magnum, and Crystal on hand. I have enough lager hops to last years. I’m going to have to start throwing old the older hops.
I have all of those in my freezer as well.  That Spalt Select might be my new (old!?) favorite.  Use them to make a better North American Industrial Lager.

Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline Village Taphouse

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I think there are too many things people would want to change to choose just one.  Better malt.  More hops and better hops.  A yeast with more character.  Less adjuncts.  Sorry.  I'm probably the one who derailed this thing in the first place.

i accept your apology.  ;)

yeah, i know, i knew that would be the challenge, only choosing one. i really should have made it "choose two things". then we'd get somewhere.


i think you could really get somewhere though with just all-malt and trying out some wacky yeasts. not sure if changing the yeast would be a major cost issue (organizational is no concern, lets imagine), but a belgian, saison or simply chico strain yeast on all-malt american 2row with the standard 15IBU of budweiser.
This is a strange thing because when I go somewhere on vacation I like to drink the local stuff.  In Mexico I might have Victoria (one of my favorite warm-weather beers) or Negra Modelo or Indio or even Sol or Pacifico.  All of these beers taste different.  I was in Costa Rica and had Imperial which I found to be bland.  The next place we went to I saw a beer called Pilsen and figured it had to be better than Imperial and it was.  They were both light, gold fizzy beers but the Imperial was lighter and blander and the Pilsen was fuller-tasting and I could tell that they used a better yeast like 2124 or one of its offshoots.  I said to my wife "order the Pilsen, it's better" and she got one and said "Oh yeah, much better!".  But why?  A lower percentage of adjuncts and more malt?  A better yeast?  A touch of something like Vienna or Light Munich?  No idea but the gold lager world is filled with so many VERY SIMILAR beers but they are all very different. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline tommymorris

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I made several CAPs this summer. My favorite was

78% 6-row
22% flaked corn
Omega Mexican Lager
Magnum FWH 27 IBU
0.75oz/5 gallons of US Saaz @ 15 & 5
1050 OG

That beer and all the CAPS I made this summer were awesome. I made the same basic recipe with just Pilsner Malt. I liked the flaked corn version better.
Hey, there's that US Saaz again.  ;)  Hop heaven?
Yep. Good stuff.

Going back and forth with you I am filling my freezer with hops. Edelweiss, Spalt Select,... I need to get brewing. I also have lots of Sterling, Saaz, Hallertau, Magnum, and Crystal on hand. I have enough lager hops to last years. I’m going to have to start throwing old the older hops.
I have all of those in my freezer as well.  That Spalt Select might be my new (old!?) favorite.  Use them to make a better North American Industrial Lager.
a better NAIL with one ingredient, you say? 2.5% copper malt. ;)