Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: if you could improve the standard north american industrial lager in 1 step how?  (Read 9397 times)

Offline fredthecat

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1968
I can't help but think that this is a silly "debate". Don't like it? Don't buy it. Duh.

But more than that: keep in mind context. Here in Sacramento, after doing yard work all day in the summer, I'm not going to reach for a 6.5% hazy IPA or even a 5.5% pilsner to congratulate myself and feel refreshed. It's going to be a NAIL...or something I've brewed that's similar to a NAIL. Duh.

Sitting around the outdoor fireplace in the winter? I'll be sipping on an imperial stout, not a NAIL. Also duh.

Context people, context.

there isnt any debate.

it sounds like you didn't read any of the thread at all.

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2378
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
I can't help but think that this is a silly "debate". Don't like it? Don't buy it. Duh.

But more than that: keep in mind context. Here in Sacramento, after doing yard work all day in the summer, I'm not going to reach for a 6.5% hazy IPA or even a 5.5% pilsner to congratulate myself and feel refreshed. It's going to be a NAIL...or something I've brewed that's similar to a NAIL. Duh.

Sitting around the outdoor fireplace in the winter? I'll be sipping on an imperial stout, not a NAIL. Also duh.

Context people, context.
I hear what you're saying but for dedicated NAIL drinkers, there is no "season"... they drink NAILs all the time because they're NAIL drinkers.  Nothing wrong with that.
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline Drewch

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 669
  • Just this guy, you know?
They just built an Aldi about 15 minutes away. We’ve driven past and said we need to go in but we haven’t yet. Sounds like I need to change that soon.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

ALDI is very esoteric. Be sure bring a quarter to unlock the shopping cart, and you have bring or buy bags, and you bag your stuff after they check you out.

But they have some good deals once you get used to it. And our German friends swore by some of their stuff (not sure about the beer) because it's actually what they would buy Germany.
The Other Drew

Home fermentations since 2019.

Member at large of the Central Alabama Brewers Society, the League of Drews, and the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6130
They just built an Aldi about 15 minutes away. We’ve driven past and said we need to go in but we haven’t yet. Sounds like I need to change that soon.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

ALDI is very esoteric. Be sure bring a quarter to unlock the shopping cart, and you have bring or buy bags, and you bag your stuff after they check you out.

...

I recall that from Germany. Interesting that they’d bring it to the US with them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline fredthecat

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1968

ALDI is very esoteric. Be sure bring a quarter to unlock the shopping cart, and you have bring or buy bags, and you bag your stuff after they check you out.

But they have some good deals once you get used to it. And our German friends swore by some of their stuff (not sure about the beer) because it's actually what they would buy Germany.

you guys are probably lucky to have it.

i experienced carrefour in taiwan, which had a few real french products which was cool and tesco ran one of the biggest supermarket chains in korea. so it ended up being the 0.1% of the population who are foreigners are the only ones buying tesco branded stouts, tins of baked beans, black tea, marmalade etc. i would always check the discount bins and the very expensive imported cheeses/alcohol at korean department stores. they import all this pricey stuff because they want to demonstrate that they are high-end/international and therefore classy, but koreans didnt even know what to do with most of it and would never buy it. so it would get 90% off sales near their expiry dates.

id love to have an ALDI near me.

Offline Drewch

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 669
  • Just this guy, you know?
...ALDI is very esoteric. Be sure bring a quarter to unlock the shopping cart, and you have bring or buy bags, and you bag your stuff after they check you out....

I recall that from Germany. Interesting that they’d bring it to the US with them.


It's not bad once you get used to it, but they should post a how-to guide by the entrance.  There's one in Huntsville now off of Memorial as you're heading towards Lacey's Spring.  On the topic of house-brand beers, they're putting in Trader Joe's where the old mall used to be by Research.

But coming back around to the topic of NAILs -- this thread (to me) really highlights the cultural shift that craft beer has brought about.  I started with Guinness and spiraled out from there to brands like New Belgium and Odell.  It's hard for me to imagine BMC being the only beer available.  But if I were going to recommend one change to make them better, I'd just suggest a more characterful base malt -- nudge them in the direction of a Vienna lager or a Mexican lager.
The Other Drew

Home fermentations since 2019.

Member at large of the Central Alabama Brewers Society, the League of Drews, and the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

Offline Bilsch

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
But if I were going to recommend one change to make them better, I'd just suggest a more characterful base malt -- nudge them in the direction of a Vienna lager or a Mexican lager.

Funny that you mention Mexican lagers which as it happens contain a lot of corn and yet those beers have a much better flavor then the average North American lager.

Someone should write a book: ADM and how cheap high maltose corn syrup killed American macro lager.

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10698
  • Milford, MI
But if I were going to recommend one change to make them better, I'd just suggest a more characterful base malt -- nudge them in the direction of a Vienna lager or a Mexican lager.

Funny that you mention Mexican lagers which as it happens contain a lot of corn and yet those beers have a much better flavor then the average North American lager.

Someone should write a book: ADM and how cheap high maltose corn syrup killed American macro lager.

There is a corn processing plant in Lafayette IN that makes corn syrup. Today it is owned by Tate and Lyle's of Golden Syrup fame. Before that it was owned by A E Staley. Way back when I was going to University, it was Anheuser Busch. They made their own corn syrups for use in the Busch line of beers.
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Drewch

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 669
  • Just this guy, you know?
But if I were going to recommend one change to make them better, I'd just suggest a more characterful base malt -- nudge them in the direction of a Vienna lager or a Mexican lager.

Funny that you mention Mexican lagers which as it happens contain a lot of corn and yet those beers have a much better flavor then the average North American lager.

Someone should write a book: ADM and how cheap high maltose corn syrup killed American macro lager.

My understanding is that American lagers descend from Pilsner styles while Mexican lagers descend from the Viennese tradition.  That's why I keyed in to the base malt.  :shrug: ??
The Other Drew

Home fermentations since 2019.

Member at large of the Central Alabama Brewers Society, the League of Drews, and the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2378
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
I buy much more Mexican beer than I do American beer... when it comes to macro-produced beer.  It's common to find Negra Modelo, Modelo Especial, Victoria and Pacifico in my bar fridge, especially in the warmer months.  You will not see Miller, Coors or Bud products in that fridge unless someone brought it and left it here.  Anyone who sees those Mexican beers will be inclined to drink them including my wife and kids, inlaws, nieces and nephews, friends, etc.   
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline erockrph

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7824
  • Chepachet, RI
    • The Hop WHisperer
I buy much more Mexican beer than I do American beer... when it comes to macro-produced beer.  It's common to find Negra Modelo, Modelo Especial, Victoria and Pacifico in my bar fridge, especially in the warmer months.  You will not see Miller, Coors or Bud products in that fridge unless someone brought it and left it here.  Anyone who sees those Mexican beers will be inclined to drink them including my wife and kids, inlaws, nieces and nephews, friends, etc.
Same here, I always have some Negra Modelo and/or Modelo Especial on hand. Even Corona - I had one for the first time in ages at a cookout a couple of years ago and I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it compared to the typical BMC lager.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline fredthecat

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1968
I buy much more Mexican beer than I do American beer... when it comes to macro-produced beer.  It's common to find Negra Modelo, Modelo Especial, Victoria and Pacifico in my bar fridge, especially in the warmer months.  You will not see Miller, Coors or Bud products in that fridge unless someone brought it and left it here.  Anyone who sees those Mexican beers will be inclined to drink them including my wife and kids, inlaws, nieces and nephews, friends, etc.
Same here, I always have some Negra Modelo and/or Modelo Especial on hand. Even Corona - I had one for the first time in ages at a cookout a couple of years ago and I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it compared to the typical BMC lager.

yup, good anecdote. i think we're getting the reasons out in the open as to why BMC is so dang bad.

i remember having ~40 cent saigon special bia (beer) there, and it was great tasting. just checked and its an all-malt beer. but this beer was as cheap as a bottle of water. crazy how i can get a clean tasting, crisp and well hopped basic all-malt lager from supposed 3rd world countries for less money than a BMC product there or here.

i guess we basically learned that NAILs are irredeemable without major changes


Offline HighVoltageMan!

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 189
I must be an odd ball, but I brew American Lagers. I don’t like the apple flavor found in Bud and Coors. Miller High (low) Life has way too much sulfur and smells like ass.

So brew a straight up lager. 85% Rahr Premium Pils and 15% Minute Rice. Bittered to 12 IBU and fermented at 46-48F with 34/70. The cleaner the fermentation the more the malt comes out. The rice has a nice sweetness in the middle, but finishes dry. It’s a really nice crispy beer and I yet to find it from a commercial brewery. It’s kind of German in character, a Helles, but a little lighter.

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1136
  • Deus ex machina
All this talk reminds me that the original Michelob, the stuff I drank in the 0's and early 90's, was once a really good beer. IIRC it was an adjunct free lager.

None of us were alive when Michelob was adjunct free.  Michelob was once a premium all 2-row malt and noble hops based beer.   As far as AB's products go, Michelob is still a premium product. It is an adjunct beer made with noble hops. AB originally created Elk Mountain Farms in Bonner's Ferry, Idaho as an additional source of noble hops. AB chose Bonner's Ferry because the peak photo period exceeds 16 hours.  All of the noble landrace cultivars come from areas where the peak photo period exceeds 16 hours.  Elk Mountain Farms is the largest hop farm in the world.

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1136
  • Deus ex machina
I went to Ontario to fish with my dad when I was about 19.  My dad loved Labatt's Blue in the brown bottle and with the blue label.  May have been his favorite beer.  He would say, "If I find it here at home, it's not as good.  It's in a green bottle with a green label and it's not the same".  But it absolutely was good when I had it (of course I was 19 so...).  I can't get behind the concept that it was made with an ale yeast but it could have been an off-the-map yeast which gave it a distinct character.

Actually, Labatt's house culture was a two-strain ale culture.  I discovered these cultures in the NCYC and contacted the scientist who originally isolated them a few years ago. The neat thing about the Labatt culture was that the strains were co-flocculent.