Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: 34/70 - Slow Start?  (Read 5742 times)

Offline waltsmalt

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
34/70 - Slow Start?
« on: January 27, 2021, 06:09:10 am »
Brewed a American Light Lager style on Sunday with a OG of 1.042.  Cooled to 52 and pitched to packets of 34/70 into 10 gallons.  As of this morning, I’m still not seeing much activity.  I know, RDWHAH.  Just curious if this is normal.  It’s the first time that I’ve used a dry lager least.  I did just sprinkle both on top of the wort as I have with other dry ale yeasts (US-05 mainly). 

Offline PORTERHAUS

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • NW Indiana
Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2021, 07:43:36 am »
Lager yeast is a bit slower to show signs of activity, everything happens slower at colder temps. With Lagers, you typically want to at least double your yeast pitch. I'm sure this will still be on its way to making beer, just something to keep in mind for better fermentation and finished results on future Lager batches.

What are you considering activity? Air Lock bubbles, lack of krausen? Can you see into your fermenter?

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6175
34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2021, 07:44:17 am »
[my opinion]

A lot of people here disagree with me but...

You pitched ~23 grams. A mfr recommended pitch would have been ~40 grams. So, in my eyes you pitched ~57% of the recommended amount.

It will take off sooner or later but with an under pitch like that you should expect a long lag.

[/my opinion]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 07:54:09 am by BrewBama »

Offline waltsmalt

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2021, 07:53:45 am »
Good point.  Took my eyes off of that when putting together the recipe.  I should have know better than to just blindly pitch two packets.

I don’t have a ton of time before leaving for the weekend, but should I pick up another packet or two and pitch it now?

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11349
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2021, 08:55:28 am »
[my opinion]

A lot of people here disagree with me but...

You pitched ~23 grams. A mfr recommended pitch would have been ~40 grams. So, in my eyes you pitched ~57% of the recommended amount.

It will take off sooner or later but with an under pitch like that you should expect a long lag.

[/my opinion]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It's not just your opinion it's fact. The OP underpitched. You should have used 3 or 4 packs of lager yeast. A lager needs roughly 2Xs the amount of yeast as an ale.

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11349
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2021, 08:56:07 am »
Good point.  Took my eyes off of that when putting together the recipe.  I should have know better than to just blindly pitch two packets.

I don’t have a ton of time before leaving for the weekend, but should I pick up another packet or two and pitch it now?

Yes, pitch another couple of packs. It will be fine. But get it in there asap

Offline Bel Air Brewing

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1398
Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2021, 09:23:39 am »
Do not worry! I have a thread here somewhere in which my experience with a long lag time was noted. It was around 36-48 hours. The beer turned out great.
If you do some searching, W-34/70 is widely known for it's slow start on initial pitching.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=34868.msg439173#msg439173

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11349
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2021, 10:10:30 am »
Do not worry! I have a thread here somewhere in which my experience with a long lag time was noted. It was around 36-48 hours. The beer turned out great.
If you do some searching, W-34/70 is widely known for it's slow start on initial pitching.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=34868.msg439173#msg439173

A lot of dry yeast is known for its slow start. But it's still important to pitch enough yeast.  Here is the guideline I use for dry yeast:

Quote
For dry yeast, ales and 5 gallon batches; for every .025 SG you will need approximately 5.5 grams of yeast. So for a 1.050 beer you will need 11 grams of yeast. For a 1.075 16.5 grams, for 1.100 you will need 22 grams of yeast, and so on. Double those amounts for lagers

Online denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27326
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2021, 10:31:29 am »
Do not worry! I have a thread here somewhere in which my experience with a long lag time was noted. It was around 36-48 hours. The beer turned out great.
If you do some searching, W-34/70 is widely known for it's slow start on initial pitching.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=34868.msg439173#msg439173

A lot of dry yeast is known for its slow start. But it's still important to pitch enough yeast.  Here is the guideline I use for dry yeast:

Quote
For dry yeast, ales and 5 gallon batches; for every .025 SG you will need approximately 5.5 grams of yeast. So for a 1.050 beer you will need 11 grams of yeast. For a 1.075 16.5 grams, for 1.100 you will need 22 grams of yeast, and so on. Double those amounts for lagers

So how do you account for experience that differs from that?  Just repeated luck?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4905
Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2021, 10:44:59 am »
With an initial gravity of 1.042, you are probably ok.  I typically pitch 3 sachets of 34/70 or S-189 in my 10 gallon batches, but lately, I have been doing 5 gallon batches of 1.040 or lower lagers.  They turn out fine with one sachet of dry lager yeast.  A little bit slow to start, maybe, but I have done 10 gallons split into 2 5 gallon fermenters, with one being a re-pitch of freshly harvested slurry, and both finished about the same time - despite the lag on the dry pitch.

Just my 2 Lincolns here...YMMV, of course.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11349
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2021, 11:45:38 am »
Do not worry! I have a thread here somewhere in which my experience with a long lag time was noted. It was around 36-48 hours. The beer turned out great.
If you do some searching, W-34/70 is widely known for it's slow start on initial pitching.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=34868.msg439173#msg439173

A lot of dry yeast is known for its slow start. But it's still important to pitch enough yeast.  Here is the guideline I use for dry yeast:

Quote
For dry yeast, ales and 5 gallon batches; for every .025 SG you will need approximately 5.5 grams of yeast. So for a 1.050 beer you will need 11 grams of yeast. For a 1.075 16.5 grams, for 1.100 you will need 22 grams of yeast, and so on. Double those amounts for lagers

So how do you account for experience that differs from that?  Just repeated luck?

If your experience differs  from that - great! But you also probably won't be coming into a public forum saying that there's a problem with an extended lag.

How did I miss everyone on the forum moving away from proper pitching rates?

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6175
34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2021, 12:45:57 pm »
The reason I began researching yrs ago and then pitching to the mfr recommendations was due to frustration over W34/70’s slow start and lethargic long fermentation. Robert said he ferments lagers in days vs weeks so it intrigued me.  Once I began pitching to the mfr recommendations those problems disappeared.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 12:55:44 pm by BrewBama »

Online denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27326
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2021, 12:48:10 pm »
Do not worry! I have a thread here somewhere in which my experience with a long lag time was noted. It was around 36-48 hours. The beer turned out great.
If you do some searching, W-34/70 is widely known for it's slow start on initial pitching.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=34868.msg439173#msg439173

A lot of dry yeast is known for its slow start. But it's still important to pitch enough yeast.  Here is the guideline I use for dry yeast:

Quote
For dry yeast, ales and 5 gallon batches; for every .025 SG you will need approximately 5.5 grams of yeast. So for a 1.050 beer you will need 11 grams of yeast. For a 1.075 16.5 grams, for 1.100 you will need 22 grams of yeast, and so on. Double those amounts for lagers

So how do you account for experience that differs from that?  Just repeated luck?

If your experience differs  from that - great! But you also probably won't be coming into a public forum saying that there's a problem with an extended lag.

How did I miss everyone on the forum moving away from proper pitching rates?

In my case, "proper" is defined by what works.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6175
34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2021, 01:01:11 pm »
[my opinion]

A lot of people here disagree with me but...

You pitched ~23 grams. A mfr recommended pitch would have been ~40 grams. So, in my eyes you pitched ~57% of the recommended amount.

It will take off sooner or later but with an under pitch like that you should expect a long lag.

[/my opinion]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It's not just your opinion it's fact. The OP underpitched. You should have used 3 or 4 packs of lager yeast. A lager needs roughly 2Xs the amount of yeast as an ale.
I told you a lot disagree.

My experience has been diametrically opposed to others here. The mfr suggested pitch rate helped me tremendously.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 01:23:19 pm by BrewBama »

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11349
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2021, 01:05:41 pm »
Denny - totally agree. People have claimed for years that they pitched one 6 month old pack of liquid yeast in a barley wine and it "works" for them too. But when it doesn't "work" and they come on the forum and ask for opinions the correct advice should be - pitch more yeast. Just sayin'.