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Author Topic: 34/70 - Slow Start?  (Read 5725 times)

Offline majorvices

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2021, 01:13:34 pm »
BrewBama - I'm always going to do what works best for me and suggest that to others who ask advice. I believe that you can underpitch a good deal and still get fine beer. But your results will be more consistent if you follow some pitching rate guidelines.

Offline denny

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2021, 01:15:53 pm »
Denny - totally agree. People have claimed for years that they pitched one 6 month old pack of liquid yeast in a barley wine and it "works" for them too. But when it doesn't "work" and they come on the forum and ask for opinions the correct advice should be - pitch more yeast. Just sayin'.

In the situation you mention, I'd give the same advice as you.  But whether that situation or another, I will, always quote my own experience, just as you and Brewbama do.
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2021, 01:19:54 pm »
Do not worry! I have a thread here somewhere in which my experience with a long lag time was noted. It was around 36-48 hours. The beer turned out great.
If you do some searching, W-34/70 is widely known for it's slow start on initial pitching.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=34868.msg439173#msg439173

A lot of dry yeast is known for its slow start. But it's still important to pitch enough yeast.  Here is the guideline I use for dry yeast:

Quote
For dry yeast, ales and 5 gallon batches; for every .025 SG you will need approximately 5.5 grams of yeast. So for a 1.050 beer you will need 11 grams of yeast. For a 1.075 16.5 grams, for 1.100 you will need 22 grams of yeast, and so on. Double those amounts for lagers

In the thread I referenced, with the 48 hour lag time, 3 packs of 34/70 were pitched into 10 gallons of wort. Or 1.2 ounces of yeast.

Offline majorvices

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2021, 01:21:14 pm »
Denny - totally agree. People have claimed for years that they pitched one 6 month old pack of liquid yeast in a barley wine and it "works" for them too. But when it doesn't "work" and they come on the forum and ask for opinions the correct advice should be - pitch more yeast. Just sayin'.

In the situation you mention, I'd give the same advice as you.  But whether that situation or another, I will, always quote my own experience, just as you and Brewbama do.

Honestly I'm still not sure what that is!   ??? ;)

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2021, 01:24:12 pm »
I would simply say, that as you decrease OG, the factor for yeast pitch is also reduced, no?  I so rarely brew much above 1.040 OG beers anymore, that I have found the need to pitch two or more sachets in 5 gallons lessened.  I have and likely will pitch more than one sachet, occasionally, but I am not certain about the need to do that with my low ABV styles (Lichtbier, Czech Pale Lager - not premium- and ordinary bitters, to name a few).  But slurry re-pitching with frequency has led me to not fret the slow start of the initial dry yeast pitch in these "little beers".

The OP has a 1.042 OG beer and while more yeast than one sachet would shorten the lag, the lag itself isn't giving me heartburn (kind of the neutron bomb analogy from Mark).  And as I said above, your mileage may vary and I would extend that to say, your process may vary in order to meet your expectations - which is totally fair.
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Offline BrewBama

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34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2021, 01:46:02 pm »
Do not worry! I have a thread here somewhere in which my experience with a long lag time was noted. It was around 36-48 hours. The beer turned out great.
If you do some searching, W-34/70 is widely known for it's slow start on initial pitching.


W34/70 is “widely known for its slow start” because people don’t pitch enough yeast based on advise of fellow brewers. Your three packs in 10 gal was ~86-90% of the recommendation (depending on who’s calculation you use). Good on ya. Better than most.

For some reason it’s looked highly upon to make beer with less dry yeast. Not sure why.

Will it make beer? Yep. Eventually.

Bry-97 is another with a reputation for a slow start. I’ve experienced 36 hr lag with it using the ‘one pack a batch’ routine. Likewise, I don’t get those long lags with it anymore either because I pitch more than ‘one pack a batch’. I have numerous batches graphed from start to finish to confirm my results.

Dry yeast is the only commodity we use that is measured in ‘packages’. If the package was 5 or 15 grams would those be the measurements to use? 

I buy lactic acid in a bottle, am I supposed to use it all?  No.

If I need a pound and a half of grain will I settle for half a pound? I doubt it.

We calculate and measure the proper amounts to use for our application and desired results.

Dry yeast is no different. But for some reason ‘one pack a batch’ has been the answer regardless of wort volume or gravity.

It just doesn’t make sense to me. C’est la vie.

Cheers.


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« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 02:06:58 pm by BrewBama »

Offline majorvices

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2021, 01:52:06 pm »
Pitching rates are guidelines. Any lag under 48 hours isn't really anything to stress about. All of brewing is variants and gradients. I prefer repeatable results without extended lag times, which is why I think pitching rate guidelines are important. For those that come in asking for advice I will always -- from now until my very last post -- recommend standard pitching rates as a way to reach those repeatable results. As I said in my reply - "It will be fine". Personally, I'd pitch more yeast.

Offline majorvices

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2021, 02:05:44 pm »
Do not worry! I have a thread here somewhere in which my experience with a long lag time was noted. It was around 36-48 hours. The beer turned out great.
If you do some searching, W-34/70 is widely known for it's slow start on initial pitching.


W34/70 is “widely known for its slow start” because people don’t pitch enough yeast based on advise of fellow brewers. Your three packs in 10 gal was ~90% of the recommendation. Good on ya. Better than most.

For some reason it’s looked highly upon to make beer with less dry yeast. Not sure why.

......


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+1

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2021, 02:54:11 pm »
I hear what you are saying.  You won't hear me saying 2 sachets is overpitching, as I don't think it is with originally pitched beers. 

The only overpitching I have experienced is pitching directly on a yeast cake (immediately after racking from the primary) with no yeast removed from the prior batch.  I experienced a flaccid, lifeless beer and don't want to repeat that, so I remove yeast for repitching routinely now (by measurement for repitching).

Cheers!
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline majorvices

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2021, 03:07:21 pm »
I hear what you are saying.  You won't hear me saying 2 sachets is overpitching, as I don't think it is with originally pitched beers. 

The only overpitching I have experienced is pitching directly on a yeast cake (immediately after racking from the primary) with no yeast removed from the prior batch.  I experienced a flaccid, lifeless beer and don't want to repeat that, so I remove yeast for repitching routinely now (by measurement for repitching).

Cheers!

Definitely agree with that. The biggest problem with over pitching is dead cells.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2021, 03:55:45 pm »
I pitched two packs of dry W-34/70 into 5.5 gallons of 61F wort on Sunday and set my Immersion Pro to 53F.  The Immersion Pro took five hours to bring the wort down to 63F in a cold garage (I am using it more to prevent the temperature from going below 53F).  I did not see actively until Monday evening.  I had strong fermentation activity by Tuesday.

Offline mdyer909

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2021, 04:28:18 pm »
I used 2 packs of 34/70 in my Maibock this weekend (og 1068), ambient temp dropped to 49, but it took off within 24 hours.  5 gallon batch.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2021, 04:46:31 pm »
I guess I’m the odd man out...2 packs of 34/70 in 7 gallons, and one pack in 3 gallons. I guess 6 packs should have been pitched to avoid my 48 hour lag time. The OG was 1.052.

Now with harvested 34/70, there is little or no lag. Maybe a couple hours at most. But I use nearly 1 qt of fresh slurry per 5 gallons.

Yes, over pitching is what I do on a regular basis.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2021, 06:21:56 pm »
I am beginning to believe that the Lallemand strains may benefit from aeration.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 02:08:03 pm by Saccharomyces »

Offline RC

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Re: 34/70 - Slow Start?
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2021, 06:50:42 pm »
I am beginning to believe that the Lallemand strains may benefit for aeration.

What are your observations behind this? Just curious. I haven't used all the Lallemand strains, but the five I've used made great beer without aeration.