[WEEGE]

Hi and thanks for being here:
I'm new to all grain, I have been Extract brewing off and on for years and have loved every minute of it but now i think I want to Make the Jump to all grain, and am looking forward to it but I have a Question I can't seem to find the answer to so I am looking to the great minds that reside here for an answer.
I understand the 1.25-1.5 Qts/Lb.of grain and the 60-90 minute mash, but why can't I fill my 20Gal. HLT and start at approx. 167Deg.fill the mash tun then raise the temp to 170deg.approx. then start to sparge and stop when I get 7-7.5 gal in the boil kettle and leave whatever is left over in the mash tun and discard
I guess my question is is it that important to have the exact amount of water to sparge with, does it need to come out even??
WEEGE

[Bob357]

You can do whatever you want and make any adjustments needed in the next batch(es). It would be a lot easier, however, to use brewing software or on line calculators. For questions about your process, you need to define the process if you want specific answers.

[kramerog]

Hi and thanks for being here:
I'm new to all grain, I have been Extract brewing off and on for years and have loved every minute of it but now i think I want to Make the Jump to all grain, and am looking forward to it but I have a Question I can't seem to find the answer to so I am looking to the great minds that reside here for an answer.
I understand the 1.25-1.5 Qts/Lb.of grain and the 60-90 minute mash, but why can't I fill my 20Gal. HLT and start at approx. 167Deg.fill the mash tun then raise the temp to 170deg.approx. then start to sparge and stop when I get 7-7.5 gal in the boil kettle and leave whatever is left over in the mash tun and discard
I guess my question is is it that important to have the exact amount of water to sparge with, does it need to come out even??
WEEGE

It isn't that important to have the exact amount of water needed rather than more water. But is it is more efficient, e.g., higher original gravity, and less time and fuel heating water you never use.  The amount of water you need is your target before the boil plus ~1 pt/lb of grain or malt.

[ynotbrusum]

Is the 167F water going to get you to your initial mash temperature, correctly?  If so and if fly sparging, then your approach is sound and you would collect until you have your preboil volume met.  I would simply batch sparge, however.  I like the concept of running off, measuring run off and adding the necessary volume of additional water to the mash tun to get to my intended preboil volume.

[majorvices]

Mash temp is more important than water volume. BIAB (brew in a bag) doesn't use any sparge water.

One of the easiest ways to sparge is to Batch sparge. basically dough-in (eg: 1.25 qts per pound) and hot your strike. Run that first portion off intoa kettle and measure what you have. If you are breiwng a 5 gallon batch and you got 2.5 gallons of wort simply sparge with 2.5 gallons water and you will hit your final volume.

[PORTERHAUS]

If you have the means to do so (a large enough mash tun), you could skip the sparge all together. I have really come to like going this route the last couple years. Not that sparging is hard at all, this just saves even more time, energy and effort.

I think the basis of your question is why are there common standards of 1.25-1.5 qts per lb of grain for mashing. Why is the mash split like it is? I think it just comes down to having a good balance of water to mash with and then water to sparge with, but depends on the grain bill, batch size...etc. You can disregard that and do whatever you want with your volumes, the idea of the water ratios again is to get baseline for repeatability in your process and for many brewers a way to maximize efficiency by rinsing (sparging) the grains after the mash.

If you are jumping into all grain, I would seriously look into BIAB "style" brewing, doesn't have to be in a bag per say...look at full volume, no sparge brewing if it interests you. The only thing to lose is a bit of efficiency, but depending on what your setup is it's not that big of a loss or added cost for most brewers. I re-circulate the mash the entire time and with full volume, no sparge mashing I average 75% which was what I was getting doing batch sparge before my RoboBrew re-circulating setup.

[spurviance]

I think the basis of your question is why are there common standards of 1.25-1.5 qts per lb of grain for mashing. Why is the mash split like it is? I think it just comes down to having a good balance of water to mash with and then water to sparge with, but depends on the grain bill, batch size...etc. You can disregard that and do whatever you want with your volumes, the idea of the water ratios again is to get baseline for repeatability in your process and for many brewers a way to maximize efficiency by rinsing (sparging) the grains after the mash.

I suspect, like many things in this hobby, home brewers tried to mimic the processes that large scale brewers use.   It’s not practical for a commercial brewer to do a BIAB type process as their mash run would have to be twice the size.  Also the lower efficiency this method provides would be quite costly on the commercial scale.   

[PORTERHAUS]

I think the basis of your question is why are there common standards of 1.25-1.5 qts per lb of grain for mashing. Why is the mash split like it is? I think it just comes down to having a good balance of water to mash with and then water to sparge with, but depends on the grain bill, batch size...etc. You can disregard that and do whatever you want with your volumes, the idea of the water ratios again is to get baseline for repeatability in your process and for many brewers a way to maximize efficiency by rinsing (sparging) the grains after the mash.

I suspect, like many things in this hobby, home brewers tried to mimic the processes that large scale brewers use.   It’s not practical for a commercial brewer to do a BIAB type process as their mash run would have to be twice the size.  Also the lower efficiency this method provides would be quite costly on the commercial scale.

Well, for sure on the commercial scale...talking big money there.

[fredthecat]

If you have the means to do so (a large enough mash tun), you could skip the sparge all together. I have really come to like going this route the last couple years. Not that sparging is hard at all, this just saves even more time, energy and effort.

I think the basis of your question is why are there common standards of 1.25-1.5 qts per lb of grain for mashing. Why is the mash split like it is? I think it just comes down to having a good balance of water to mash with and then water to sparge with, but depends on the grain bill, batch size...etc. You can disregard that and do whatever you want with your volumes, the idea of the water ratios again is to get baseline for repeatability in your process and for many brewers a way to maximize efficiency by rinsing (sparging) the grains after the mash.

If you are jumping into all grain, I would seriously look into BIAB "style" brewing, doesn't have to be in a bag per say...look at full volume, no sparge brewing if it interests you. The only thing to lose is a bit of efficiency, but depending on what your setup is it's not that big of a loss or added cost for most brewers. I re-circulate the mash the entire time and with full volume, no sparge mashing I average 75% which was what I was getting doing batch sparge before my RoboBrew re-circulating setup.

absolutely, i used to do BIAB, and while i didn't have a well planned system for draining the bag (a solid hook or something i can hang the bag from), it was a fair bit faster than the mash/sparge thing i do now.

potentially saving 2 or 3 bucks from grain efficiency is definitely worth saving some hassle and 20 or 30 mins of time on a brewday.