Author Topic: English Yeast and Hop Aroma  (Read 2437 times)

Offline pinnah

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English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« on: November 18, 2009, 09:09:21 AM »
Another brewer here, whom I trust mind you ;)

mentioned to me that some english strains can supress hop aroma.

So for example, an IPA with english yeast may not have equal aroma potency
as say the same beer fermented with a clean "American" yeast.

I am interested in others thoughts and experiences on this issue.

Any?

Offline ndcube

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2009, 10:00:10 AM »
I've never heard of that.  I'll be interested to hear thoughts on it.

Offline babalu87

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2009, 11:01:34 AM »
I just brewed an IPA with Thames Valley yeast

Will be going into a keg in a week or so but primary is done and I dont think it suppressed anything
Jeff

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IIPA, Stout, Hefeweizen, Hallertau Pale Ale, Bitter

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Offline guvna

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2009, 11:16:43 AM »
All I can think of is that some yeast strains seem to support malty or hoppy flavors and aromas, while others are so estery in themselves that it takes center-stage in the beer's perception. The end perception would be dependent on yeast strain, fermentation temp., and, of course, your recipe.

Offline jackfromjax

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2009, 12:29:55 PM »
+1  Yeast strains such as WLP 002 English Ale or WLP 028 Edinburgh Ale have a much more fruity ester profile than say a WLP 001 California Ale yeast.  Temperature of fermentation and the resultant esters will vary a great deal from high temp to low temp fermentations as well.  Style, however, plays a key role.  If your trying to brew an American Ale with prominent flavor and aroma hop profiles, an English yeast with more fruity esters will more than likely subdue and/or cloud the perception of hops.  Likewise, an English or Scottish Ale dependent on those fruity esters due to the lack of aroma hops, would probably be out of balance when using an American Ale yeast.

Offline crabber

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2009, 06:32:00 PM »
Not that I want to perpetuate any unproven theories, but I have read that highly flocculant yeast strains can suppress hop bitterness, and maybe even aroma, by somehow "grabbing" the oils and bringing them out of the beer down into the yeast cake.  When I think of English strains I think flocculant.  I have not tried any experiments with this; however I have tasted a rapid decrease in bitterness of young IPAs within days of cold crashing, and think this could be a plausible explanation.

Offline guvna

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2009, 07:52:10 PM »
Like you, I wouldn't want to perpetuate any rumors, but now that you mention it,  I do remember hearing something along those lines; that hop oils do coat yeast and bacteria, and that it's part of the anti-microbial action of the hops; but to what extent I'm not sure.

I did a google search and came up with a few links:

This one on hop oils says:
Quote
It is generally agreed that the addition of hop oil to filtered beer does not produce a satisfactory flavor since some contact time with yeast is necessary to remove "raw hop," "tobacco," and "grassy" notes.

Not sure what this means, but this pdf says this:
Quote
Additionally, a “late hopped” beer will contain a proportion of flavor active compounds that have been formed from hop oil components by yeast mediated, trans-esterification reactions during fermentation.

This might clarify the previous post:
Quote
Added pre-fermentation a different hop oil character will result due to the chemical reactions of the volatile compounds during fermentation and the impact of the yeast metabolism.

Jims from the northern brewer forums says:
Quote
That being said I believe it is preferable to dry hop in a secondary. The reason is that yeast will "absorb" or become coated with some of those hop oils which will reduce the flavor that you will get from the dry hop.

Anyways, I still don't think you have much to worry about using an English strain for your IPA. People do this all the time. High flocculation or not, they add finings, filter, cold crash, etc., all with the intent to drop the yeast out of suspension; and still come up with great hoppy beers.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 08:06:16 PM by guvna »

Offline redbeerman

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 10:02:13 AM »
I believe that the premise that English yeasts supress hop aroma is bunk.  American ale yeast may let it shine through better because of the greater attenuation.
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Offline blatz

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2009, 10:12:35 AM »
I know that Vinnie Cilurzio states something to that effect for some yeasts (basically what crabber and guvna said) - I have that page he gives out at home - will look it up.

Suppress might not be the right word - compete with and/or drown out might be a better description (due to the increased esters), and I personally do believe that to be the case.

I've made my house IPA before with 1028 and 1968 - the 1028 was good, though not as fresh and vibrant as with american yeasts and the 1968 was just terrible - too much esters and the lack of attenuation left it too malty for my tastes.

However, Adam Avery uses 1028 and his beers do have a touch of hop aroma to them  ::)  ;D
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Offline guvna

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2009, 10:33:37 AM »
I do still want to point out, because I just realized that it hasn't been yet, that there may be some aromas scrubbed out by CO2 during fermentation. Dry-hopping in the secondary may give you that hop aroma you're expecting from an IPA.

Offline bluesman

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2009, 10:35:13 AM »
I recently brewed an English IPA using WLP002 and lots of imported EKG flavor and aroma hops. The beer is on tap now just finishing force carbonation.

I filled a pint last weekend halfway through it's carbonation cycle and I was pleasantly surprised at the hop flavor and aroma.

I dry hopped in the keg with a half ounce of EKG leaf hops prior to force carbing and only after one week there is a healthy presence of hop aroma (nose).

The only real way to truly understand what if any effect the yeast has on the hop aroma is by brewing the same formulation only changing the yeast and doing a blind tasting.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 10:36:55 AM by bluesman »
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Offline guvna

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2009, 11:09:39 AM »
The only real way to truly understand what if any effect the yeast has on the hop aroma is by brewing the same formulation only changing the yeast and doing a blind tasting.

+1, though speculation and critical thinking is fun! I like working things out in theory and testing expectation through experimentation.

Offline pinnah

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Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2009, 03:45:39 PM »
Thanks for the insight folks,
excellent discussion, and very informative.