[denny]

I have heard so many people talk about the long lag from BRY97 that I've made a point of tracking it for the last 6 times I've used it. Every one has been 17-20 hours before I saw signs of fermentation,  which doesn't seem all that long to me.  I sprinkle one pack for a 1.066 beer on top of the wort at 65F, and set the fermenter to 65F. Nothing special.  In the latest batch I forgot to add yeast nutrient amd still saw fermentation in 20 hours. How do we account for these discrepancies?   
Maybe somehow I'm lucky and got fresher yeast than everybody else?  Even if that was the case, would it make that much difference? I'm genuinely stumped why my results are so much different.   

[RC]

I routinely pitch two sachets for most beers that use this strain. I've always observed the start of a krausen at the 12-15 hr mark. Totally fine to me.

[PORTERHAUS]

I think the largest variable might be what brewers are considering signs of activity. If going by air lock activity, headspace would seem to be the main factor. Someone brewing with a lot more headspace, that headspace would take a bit longer to pressurize and start air lock activity vs someone with very little headspace...no?

I hear a lot more about lag time with Lallemand yeast (in general) than say Fermentis. Lallemand mentions it on the Data sheets for several of their yeasts and also recommends higher pitch rates than say, Fermentis. Just throwing that out there too.

[Megary]

1 pack into 3 gallons.

The longest I have ever waited for signs of activity (air-lock) is 14 hours (1.065 Stout).  The shortest was 5 (1.055 Stout).  I used it in a 1.063 IPA once where the pack was 6 months past its "use by" date.  Activity in 13 hours.

[denny]

I routinely pitch two sachets for most beers that use this strain. I've always observed the start of a krausen at the 12-15 hr mark. Totally fine to me.

Single pack for me

[denny]

I think the largest variable might be what brewers are considering signs of activity. If going by air lock activity, headspace would seem to be the main factor. Someone brewing with a lot more headspace, that headspace would take a bit longer to pressurize and start air lock activity vs someone with very little headspace...no?

I hear a lot more about lag time with Lallemand yeast (in general) than say Fermentis. Lallemand mentions it on the Data sheets for several of their yeasts and also recommends higher pitch rates than say, Fermentis. Just throwing that out there too.

I use visible signs of fermentation.  Foam on top of the beer.

[BrewBama]

I agree that common terms need to be established so we’re speaking the same language.

I use Bry-97 routinely 90% of the time. I’ve been tracking 14 +/-2 hrs over numerous brews before I see the first active ‘blip’ on the Tilt. I use a BrewBucket so can’t see foam or any other visual activity. I don’t go downstairs to watch the airlock. I imagine there’s foam but I don’t look.

I use the mfr pitch rate but recently just take a refractometer reading, divide the gravity points by 25, then multiply the result by 6.5 which is extremely close to the mfr recommendation for 5.5 gal.

i.e. (54/25)*6.5 = 14 grams.

I pitch dry as the fermenter is filling simultaneously with 2 tsp of Fermax.


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[denny]

I agree that common terms need to be established so we’re speaking the same language.

I use Bry-97 routinely 90% of the time. I’ve been tracking 14 +/-2 hrs over numerous brews before I see the first active ‘blip’ on the Tilt. I use a BrewBucket so can’t see foam or any other visual activity. I don’t go downstairs to watch the airlock. I imagine there’s foam but I don’t look.

I use the mfr pitch rate but recently just take a refractometer reading, divide the gravity points by 25, then multiply the result by 6.5 which is extremely close to the mfr recommendation for 5.5 gal.

i.e. (54/25)*6.5 = 14 grams.

I pitch dry as the fermenter is filling simultaneously with 2 tsp of Fermax.


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I get similar results with lower pitch rates and no Fermax.  Why?  Thats what I'm truly trying to understand.

[RC]

I agree that common terms need to be established so we’re speaking the same language.

Along the lines of common terminology, what do folks mean by "long lag time"? With me, liquid yeast always takes off within ~8-10 hrs, and so I might consider a 16 hr lag time as long, but only relative to liquid yeast. (Personally I consider long as >36 hrs). Maybe folks are defining it in relative terms.

[erockrph]

I agree that common terms need to be established so we’re speaking the same language.

I use Bry-97 routinely 90% of the time. I’ve been tracking 14 +/-2 hrs over numerous brews before I see the first active ‘blip’ on the Tilt. I use a BrewBucket so can’t see foam or any other visual activity. I don’t go downstairs to watch the airlock. I imagine there’s foam but I don’t look.

I use the mfr pitch rate but recently just take a refractometer reading, divide the gravity points by 25, then multiply the result by 6.5 which is extremely close to the mfr recommendation for 5.5 gal.

i.e. (54/25)*6.5 = 14 grams.

I pitch dry as the fermenter is filling simultaneously with 2 tsp of Fermax.


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I get similar results with lower pitch rates and no Fermax.  Why?  Thats what I'm truly trying to understand.

I think to set this up, there needs to be an apples-to-apples definition of lag time. Airlock bubbles, krausen formation, Tilt readings and pressure increases on a PRV all could be considered to be the end of the lag period, but they won't happen at the exact same time as each other, and fermenter geometry and headspace (among other factors) may also come into play. The more this discussion goes around, the more I begin to wonder how much of this is just semantics.

And I will continue to attest that lag time doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot in the end, anyways...

[dmtaylor]

I have only used BRY-97 twice.  The first time it took 30 hours to start up.  Not great, but okay.  The second time, I didn't keep notes.

This being said... I also routinely underpitch, using only half as much yeast as anybody else.  So this might go to prove that with this yeast, it's best not to underpitch.  Standard pitching rates are probably just fine though.  Next time I'll just pitch more yeast when using this... which for anybody else is just a standard pitching rate.

[denny]

I agree that common terms need to be established so we’re speaking the same language.

Along the lines of common terminology, what do folks mean by "long lag time"? With me, liquid yeast always takes off within ~8-10 hrs, and so I might consider a 16 hr lag time as long, but only relative to liquid yeast. (Personally I consider long as >36 hrs). Maybe folks are defining it in relative terms.

To me, "long" is an absolute....72 hours.  Otherwise I just think of it in a relative way....this is taking longer than that

[denny]

I have only used BRY-97 twice.  The first time it took 30 hours to start up.  Not great, but okay.  The second time, I didn't keep notes.

This being said... I also routinely underpitch, using only half as much yeast as anybody else.  So this might go to prove that with this yeast, it's best not to underpitch.  Standard pitching rates are probably just fine though.  Next time I'll just pitch more yeast when using this... which for anybody else is just a standard pitching rate.

I put one pack, unrehydrated or aerated, into 6 gal. of 1.066.  I think that's technically underpitching.

[BrewBama]

.... The more this discussion goes around, the more I begin to wonder how much of this is just semantics.

...

Very well could be.

I get similar results with lower pitch rates and no Fermax.  Why?  Thats what I'm truly trying to understand.

I dunno. . Like everyone, we only have our experience to go on.

Fire up those Experimental Brewing dudes.

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[ynotbrusum]

I will be interested to hear about two specific things in any comparison - actual gravity readings through the course of pitch to completion (or at least measured gravity readings on comparable devices - I am thinking a Tilt or similar) and total duration of the fermentation. 

I have not recently used K-97, but intend to do so eventually and will try to remember to track the dynamics (it is so easy to do with the numerous charting software available with the newer instruments, like the Tilt).  I would expect 10 gallons of the same wort split between two 5 gallon batches, with one pitched at 23 grams - 2 packs - and one pitched with 11.5 grams.  Other variables to measure would be time to full krausen (visually, I suppose), effect of fermentation under pressure compared to airlock fermentation (if any difference), and rehydrated versus sprinkled (could be two different sprinkles based on the partial rack from BK, sprinkle, complete the rack from BK, versus just sprinkling at start or finish of racking), and aerating wort or not, to name a few.....