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Author Topic: Correct Grain For Red Color?  (Read 9833 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2021, 11:17:35 am »
100% Best Malt Red X malt @ 1.050 is a beautiful red color. Agree that roasted barley finely ground is too.

CaraRed will add some reddish amber color and would help deepen a 100% Red X malt grist - it has a pleasant,, smooth caramel flavor.

For roast malts intended for color, they get turned into a find powder in a coffee grinder. The powder goes in at Vorlauf to minimize flavor extraction.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2021, 11:42:16 am »


100% Best Malt Red X malt @ 1.050 is a beautiful red color. Agree that roasted barley finely ground is too.

CaraRed will add some reddish amber color and would help deepen a 100% Red X malt grist - it has a pleasant,, smooth caramel flavor.

There is nothing that looks as vibrantly red as a 100% Red X beer at 1.050 or so OG, once it drops completely clear. But the flavor of that beer just isn't for me. Red X tastes in the ballpark of a very dark Munich spiked with a bit too much Aromatic/Melanoiden malt. It's just too strongly rich for me to drink in any great amount. Sure looks great in pictures,  though.

Roast barley and CaraRed will help push a beer in that direction, but at best you will get a reddish amber. One other way to get brilliant ruby red color in your beer is cherry juice if adding fruit is an option.

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I agree I'm not 100% sure I love the flavor. At YH a red lager was our flagship beer and I tried to use Red X for ease but it was not something I personally enjoyed. Sinamar is what was and probably is still used. Before that a cold steep of Carafa Special II was made and added directly to BK.
I can vouch for Rebellion Red. Damn good pint.


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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2021, 03:16:20 pm »
You might do a search for Nürnberger Rotbier and see what they use.
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Offline wesbrew

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2021, 06:27:46 pm »
a little roasted barley for me. sometimes also add some middle srm malt when the style calls for it.
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Offline Richard

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2021, 08:02:21 pm »
It depends on what kind of red you want.

I have used Viking Red malt and Red-X malt (up to 80%) to get a nice orange-red like the color of this fellow's moustache: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tycho_Brahe

That is not really what you want in an Irish Red ale, though. I brewed one of those today and used a bit of roasted barley.
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2021, 08:21:36 pm »
I am fairly certain that the red color in Killians is the result of some kind of coloring.  Other than color, that beer was not far from a bog standard NAIL. At least Pete's had enough flavor to differentiate it from a basic NAIL.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2021, 09:38:22 am »
I am fairly certain that the red color in Killians is the result of some kind of coloring.  Other than color, that beer was not far from a bog standard NAIL. At least Pete's had enough flavor to differentiate it from a basic NAIL.

Perhaps, but I doubt they use coloring...unless it comes from grains. We toured the Coors Brewery 3 times, and we did the special “Executive Tour” once. Killian’s was served on tap, and tasted darn good.

I have also heard the Shiner uses coloring agents in their Bock beer. But I doubt that also.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2021, 09:50:31 am »
Coloring agents are extremely common to promote consistency across production lots when producing a variable product such as food and drink.

Offline denny

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2021, 09:57:54 am »
I am fairly certain that the red color in Killians is the result of some kind of coloring.  Other than color, that beer was not far from a bog standard NAIL. At least Pete's had enough flavor to differentiate it from a basic NAIL.

Perhaps, but I doubt they use coloring...unless it comes from grains. We toured the Coors Brewery 3 times, and we did the special “Executive Tour” once. Killian’s was served on tap, and tasted darn good.

I have also heard the Shiner uses coloring agents in their Bock beer. But I doubt that also.

I don't really doubt either of those.  What makes you think they don't use coloring?
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2021, 08:29:08 pm »
I am fairly certain that the red color in Killians is the result of some kind of coloring.  Other than color, that beer was not far from a bog standard NAIL. At least Pete's had enough flavor to differentiate it from a basic NAIL.

Perhaps, but I doubt they use coloring...unless it comes from grains. We toured the Coors Brewery 3 times, and we did the special “Executive Tour” once. Killian’s was served on tap, and tasted darn good.

I have also heard the Shiner uses coloring agents in their Bock beer. But I doubt that also.

I don't really doubt either of those.  What makes you think they don't use coloring?

The use of coloring agents in beer would be non-kosher. While it is possible, it would indicate a lower class of brewery. As in, we have to "cheat" to get the color right because we don't have the technical expertise to do it with grains only.

Can't speak for Shiner, but after doing the executive tour at Coors, I'm confident they do not use coloring agents.

Do any home brewers add coloring?

From their website: https://www.molsoncoors.com/node/521
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 08:33:45 pm by TXFlyGuy »

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2021, 08:39:59 pm »
Sinamar is RHG compliant. You might be surprised where I saw some 5 liter jugs of it in the US.
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2021, 08:57:59 pm »
Sinamar is just color from grain. It’s sort of like using malt extract. Another company (Weyermann) has done a bit of the process/work for you. But it is still made from malted barley.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2021, 09:09:22 pm »
The vast majority of English beer over the last 150+ years has been colored with caramel. I don't get the stigma here.

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Offline Bilsch

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Re: Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2021, 10:54:38 pm »
Call me crazy but I think it makes a difference if the coloring comes from a natural roasted malt product like Sinamar as opposed to Trisodium (4E)-3-oxo-4-[(4-sulfonato-1-naphthyl) hydrazono] naphthalene-2,7-disulfonate. (aka red food dye)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 11:13:06 am by Bilsch »

Offline BrewBama

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Correct Grain For Red Color?
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2021, 12:41:07 am »
I am fairly certain that the red color in Killians is the result of some kind of coloring.  Other than color, that beer was not far from a bog standard NAIL. At least Pete's had enough flavor to differentiate it from a basic NAIL.

Perhaps, but I doubt they use coloring...unless it comes from grains. We toured the Coors Brewery 3 times, and we did the special “Executive Tour” once. Killian’s was served on tap, and tasted darn good.

I have also heard the Shiner uses coloring agents in their Bock beer. But I doubt that also.

I don't really doubt either of those.  What makes you think they don't use coloring?

The use of coloring agents in beer would be non-kosher. While it is possible, it would indicate a lower class of brewery. As in, we have to "cheat" to get the color right because we don't have the technical expertise to do it with grains only.

Can't speak for Shiner, but after doing the executive tour at Coors, I'm confident they do not use coloring agents.

Do any home brewers add coloring?

From their website: https://www.molsoncoors.com/node/521
It’s not the natural coloring agents made from grain (Sinamar, etc) or sugars (caramel, dark candi syrup, etc) that make beers non-Kosher but other ingredients such as lactose in a milk stout, certain additives like fruits, etc.

https://www.dummies.com/food-drink/drinks/beer/choosing-a-kosher-beer/

Shiner brings a Rabbi in each year to certify they are kosher. ...but that doesn’t mean they don’t use Sinamar [made from roasted malt according to the strict German "Reinheitsgebot" (purity-law)] or other all natural coloring agent as a quality control measure. He may certify that as well.

BTW, A LOT of breweries add colorants to beer.
Consistent color from batch to batch is considered a quality standard.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 01:19:13 am by BrewBama »