Author Topic: Vienna lager  (Read 3337 times)

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2021, 02:33:30 PM »
If you didn't know the recipe, would you call it a Vienna Lager when you taste it? I always find it odd to name a beer based off the recipe rather than the finished product.
That's a good question.  If someone just showed me the recipe I guess I would call it an amber lager.  At some point I got away from using higher percentages of crystal malt in a beer.  I have also seen other Vienna Lager recipes and they're all similar to each other and not really similar to this one.  I consider a pound of CM1 to be a lot of crystal malt and I would not have designed it this way.  But the brewery calls it a Vienna Lager and at the time I did not know the recipe at all so I just ordered it and enjoyed it.  It reminds me that any brewer could take any ingredients and call the finished product anything they want and it doesn't necessarily mean anything. 
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Offline chumley

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2021, 10:36:46 PM »
Back in the day, I bought a sack of Durst TurboVienna and brewed a couple of 100% Vienna malt Vienna lagers. i found them a bit one dimensional and kind of insipid.

I much better liked the Mexican Vienna Lagers I made, with 40-50% Pilsner malt, 20-32% Vienna malt, 10-20% flaked corn, 5-10% Caramunich/Caravienne, and a touch of black malt added to the sparge for color. 

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2021, 10:53:16 PM »
Back in the day, I bought a sack of Durst TurboVienna and brewed a couple of 100% Vienna malt Vienna lagers. i found them a bit one dimensional and kind of insipid.

I much better liked the Mexican Vienna Lagers I made, with 40-50% Pilsner malt, 20-32% Vienna malt, 10-20% flaked corn, 5-10% Caramunich/Caravienne, and a touch of black malt added to the sparge for color.
Yeah, that second description of yours is what I make a lot of... with 940.  Gold lagers, amber lagers and dark lagers made with a nod to Mexican styles and 940.  Those are beers I drool over.  Well, not literally.  :P
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Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2021, 04:47:55 PM »
I'm brewing one today with 838.  My go-to recipe is a version of Jamil's original recipe which is dark and malty.  Today I'm brewing a version from a brewery I visited when I went to see my daughter at school in Indiana.  I reached out to the brewer and he gave me the recipe.  It's unconventional but I'm making it just as he gave it to me.  First time brewing in about a month due to the weather.  It's a balmy 24° now and on its way up to 32°.  WHOO!  :P

What is the Brewery and the beer? I'm from NW Indiana, curious if it's something I know. Also if you don't mind, sharing the recipe? I have easy access to my crawl space and I come to find out recently it's really well suited for lagers this time of year lol. I might have on the list soon.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2021, 06:14:42 PM »
I have a club friend who wins a bunch of awards for his Vienna's.  Several brewery ramp ups, best of shows, etc.. and he uses something close to: Red X (21.7%), Vienna (59.7%), Pils (17.3%), Carafa II (1.3%).  Mittelfruh (1 oz), Magnum (.5 oz) and Tettnang (.4 oz.) at 60', Tettnang (1.25 oz) at 10'.  I didn't run his water adjustments, but he uses tap water with campden and adjusts to style and grist with lactic acid, gypsum and CaCl2. 

I've never made his, but I have a fair number of people who like mine.  It is a simple combination of Vienna (55%), Munich (10%), Pils (30%), Carafa (2.5%) and Acid Malt (2.5%).  Similar hopping and water comes from RO and is treated to grist and style.

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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2021, 06:48:21 PM »
What is the Brewery and the beer? I'm from NW Indiana, curious if it's something I know. Also if you don't mind, sharing the recipe? I have easy access to my crawl space and I come to find out recently it's really well suited for lagers this time of year lol. I might have on the list soon.
I brewed the "Brickyard Vienna Lager" from The Tap Brewery in Bloomington.  What the brewer gave me is basically 50% pilsner, 20% Vienna and 20% Munich 1 plus 10% CaraMunich 1.  Then he called for Perle to bitter to about 22 IBUs (I used Northern Brewer because I had it) and then an ounce of Saaz late in the boil.  I added it at 3 minutes.  I also used 838 because I had it up and running.  When I first saw what amounted to a POUND of CM1 I really didn't like the look of it.  I had originally planned on making the Vienna recipe I normally make but at the last minute I decided to try this one.  Maybe it will be a nice beer and *not* a Vienna, we'll see.  Here's a shot of the commercial version.  The color of my wort was very close to this... possibly a smidge lighter. 

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Offline fredthecat

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2021, 09:37:41 PM »
What is the Brewery and the beer? I'm from NW Indiana, curious if it's something I know. Also if you don't mind, sharing the recipe? I have easy access to my crawl space and I come to find out recently it's really well suited for lagers this time of year lol. I might have on the list soon.
I brewed the "Brickyard Vienna Lager" from The Tap Brewery in Bloomington.  What the brewer gave me is basically 50% pilsner, 20% Vienna and 20% Munich 1 plus 10% CaraMunich 1.  Then he called for Perle to bitter to about 22 IBUs (I used Northern Brewer because I had it) and then an ounce of Saaz late in the boil.  I added it at 3 minutes.  I also used 838 because I had it up and running.  When I first saw what amounted to a POUND of CM1 I really didn't like the look of it.  I had originally planned on making the Vienna recipe I normally make but at the last minute I decided to try this one.  Maybe it will be a nice beer and *not* a Vienna, we'll see.  Here's a shot of the commercial version.  The color of my wort was very close to this... possibly a smidge lighter. 



on a vienna lager i would follow this pretty well except no caramunich or maybe 3-4%. i used to brew with smaller amounts of munich regularly, just kind of throwing it in.

i got sensitized to melanoidins since i made a 70% munich, 30% vienna bock beer last year. it was just over the top in a melanoidiny taste, i didnt get in commercial beers. and i get freaked out about adding munich now.

point being, the 95% vienna/5% munich vienna lager i just made has a light element of that. once i get it carbonated i hope i can explain it better.

Offline Silver_Is_Money

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2021, 09:38:55 PM »
I make a very simple Vienna Lager with a grist of 88.5% Vienna malt and 11.5% Briess 60L Caramel.  I shoot for ~25 IBU's, with ~2/3 of that derived from Magnum boiled for 60 minutes, and ~1/3 derived from Mt. Hood boiled for 20 minutes.  Diamond Lager (or) S-189 dry yeast.  Color is ~12 SRM.

Offline beersk

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2021, 09:30:16 PM »
Yeah, Vienna Lager is great. I love the Devil's Backbone Vienna. Shame they got bought out by AB Inbev...but their beer is good, so I'm not surprised.
I've got one on tap now that is 99% Vienna and 1% Midnight wheat. It's pretty dark, maybe 11 SRM. I like it. I think the next one I make though I'll maybe do 15 or 20% pilsner to lighten the toasty/bready flavor up a bit or I may drop the midnight wheat addition.
Jesse

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2021, 10:39:59 PM »
Yeah, Vienna Lager is great. I love the Devil's Backbone Vienna. Shame they got bought out by AB Inbev...but their beer is good, so I'm not surprised.
I've got one on tap now that is 99% Vienna and 1% Midnight wheat. It's pretty dark, maybe 11 SRM. I like it. I think the next one I make though I'll maybe do 15 or 20% pilsner to lighten the toasty/bready flavor up a bit or I may drop the midnight wheat addition.
It feels like a wide-open style and there aren't a TON of commercial examples to compare it to although that is changing.  I am seeing more and more Vienna Lagers in craft brew pubs, some good and some not so much.  They really range in color, grain bill and bitterness and there doesn't seem to be one specific yeast that a Vienna should be made with.  838 and 2308 along with Bayern have been used here to make them.  One of my favorite styles for sure. 
Ken from Chicago

Offline majorvices

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2021, 11:22:59 PM »
Yeah, Vienna Lager is great. I love the Devil's Backbone Vienna. Shame they got bought out by AB Inbev...but their beer is good, so I'm not surprised.
I've got one on tap now that is 99% Vienna and 1% Midnight wheat. It's pretty dark, maybe 11 SRM. I like it. I think the next one I make though I'll maybe do 15 or 20% pilsner to lighten the toasty/bready flavor up a bit or I may drop the midnight wheat addition.
It feels like a wide-open style and there aren't a TON of commercial examples to compare it to although that is changing.  I am seeing more and more Vienna Lagers in craft brew pubs, some good and some not so much.  They really range in color, grain bill and bitterness and there doesn't seem to be one specific yeast that a Vienna should be made with.  838 and 2308 along with Bayern have been used here to make them.  One of my favorite styles for sure.

I don't consider this a "wide open style" - this is pretty set in stone. Vienna Lager gave rise to the Pilsner (and the Oktoberfest). It's been around for a very long time.

Online Oiscout

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2021, 11:36:11 PM »
I love devils backbone it's what got me trying other breweries vienna lagers

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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2021, 03:21:52 PM »
Yeah, Vienna Lager is great. I love the Devil's Backbone Vienna. Shame they got bought out by AB Inbev...but their beer is good, so I'm not surprised.
I've got one on tap now that is 99% Vienna and 1% Midnight wheat. It's pretty dark, maybe 11 SRM. I like it. I think the next one I make though I'll maybe do 15 or 20% pilsner to lighten the toasty/bready flavor up a bit or I may drop the midnight wheat addition.
It feels like a wide-open style and there aren't a TON of commercial examples to compare it to although that is changing.  I am seeing more and more Vienna Lagers in craft brew pubs, some good and some not so much.  They really range in color, grain bill and bitterness and there doesn't seem to be one specific yeast that a Vienna should be made with.  838 and 2308 along with Bayern have been used here to make them.  One of my favorite styles for sure.

I don't consider this a "wide open style" - this is pretty set in stone. Vienna Lager gave rise to the Pilsner (and the Oktoberfest). It's been around for a very long time.
I get that part but as far as brewer's interpretations of it, I see a lot of variances... which I suppose is true of many styles.  The commercial Vienna Lagers I have seen range from very dark and malty to much more pale with some late hoppiness.  The fact that the style disappeared for awhile and then made a bit of a comeback seems like it would allow for some creativity in terms of recipe.  The Vienna I made last weekend is very different from the one I typically make. 
Ken from Chicago

Offline majorvices

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2021, 03:32:11 PM »
I think I see what you are getting at but I don't consider it a style that "disappeared" necessarily. I think a Viena Lager that is "dark and malty" probably wouldn't do very well in a BJCP sanctioned competition. Just because a bunch of breweries are spinning their versions of the style doesn't mean they are really what anyone would recognize as a Vienna Lager. In fact, what you are speaking of really sounds more like a Bier de Garde than a Vienna Lager.

Vienna Lager never really died, BTW, it just moved to Mexico.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Vienna lager
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2021, 03:44:48 PM »
Note: the above beer was a two hour boil with the hop schedule starting after the first hour.